Of course he cares about her, but he still wouldn't consumate a platonic relationship regardless. About that also, I mean my parents had an arranged marriage and eventually fell in love with each other. It's different for me though, when I do marry, it'll be out of love and not arranged. But the love is still there. The only difference from today's relationships to Kao and Ken's of that era would honestly be that theirs would actually stand the test of trials and tribulations of life that they've been thru..the battles, the enemies...they truly love each other and stick by each other no matter what. And I can say from experience that THAT is true, unconditional, undying love and passion. You don't stick with someone through all that if you're not passionate about them. Love, passion, and even want and need...it's all there in my opinion between the both of them. And I think Rei made an excellent point of stating, that just because we don't see the lovemaking between them, doesn't mean it's not there or it didn't exist.

As for undying love and passion...unless you mean in a platonic sense (which you obviously don't) then no. Sano has stuck by Kenshin, Yahiko has and Megumi, too. Do they all love him in a romantic way (well, Megumi maybe...) No. Does he? No. There is a such thing as undying love that has NOTHING to do with romance. That, I believe, is something that can be far more beautiful than a romantic relationship.

And clearly Watsuki isn't going to show a sex scene (it's a boys manga, yeah, but it's also for kids! Not hentai!)

I mean I never got the sense that there was any heat or passion between Kaoru and Kenshin. None at all. Protectiveness, yes. Care, yes. But passion? Not so much...

We should not take everything that Watsuki wrote and interpret it only the way he wants us to. "The birth of the reader means the death of the author."

It is incredibly naive and closeminded to say that anything you interpret differently than the author is "undermining the creator." You are free to interpret the story as you like, so please don't tell me what the "facts" are, according to Rei. I don't want to know. I don't even care what the facts are according to Watsuki. If he meant the story to be interpreted in one way, then fine, I can see that. But that doesn't mean my views should be limited to just that.

IMO Watsuki put Kenshin and Kaoru together because that's what he was expected to do. I don't think it was crucial to the story that they were in love, so I think he just did it because it was convenient.

But then again, my taste for the RK pairing have been changing with the amount of fanfiction. Now of days it's hard to find a good Kenshin/Kaoru pairing. But this is my opinion. Another thing about Kenshin is I can't stand the pain he gives Kaoru in the movie. It brings tears to my eyes.

i totally agree about kenshin not getting married to kaoru just because she wanted to have a child, he is too honorable as was said in above

sorry Dee that i wasnt around to support the fight for ken and kao' love but i hav been really busy but now i am free to fight for their love agaist disbelievers....but i have a question: why do some kenshin/tomeo fans cant accept the fact that kenshin and kaoru love each other very much? we k/k fans accept that kenshin still loves tomeo and will keep her in his heart forever....i just dont understand why some people cant accept them together even after they got married and had kenji?

antica ^_^

whoever talked about how it would cause someone pain if you married them to make them happy without really loving them... i have to say i agree. i never said it was a *good* thing to do, only that it was a *Kenshin* thing to do. besides, i don't think he married her *just* to make her happy, but also because as I have explained numerous times, *he* wanted children, not just to give *her* children, but he himself actually wanted them. a lot. so the marriage arrangement would have made *him* happy as well, just for different reasons. that way, if both of them get what they want, it seems he would go for it because he would still be making both of them happy. Now if Kaoru found out he felt that way... who knows. maybe she would also believe marriage wasn't based on love, or maybe since she's thoroughly part of the "new era" she has different beliefs about it.

Lol, I just had this weird mental image of Kaoru giving birth and Kenshin being there in the room with her (possibly not something men did at the time, but he did REALLY want children, so he might have been excited enough to be in there). I recently had to watch a video of a birth for Human Sexuality class and I thought I was gonna puke... It made me wonder if Kenshin, obviously having seen a lot of rather unpretty sights, would be affected by it at all, or if, since it's a completely different *kind* of gross and since it's causing Kaoru pain, he would be a little squeamish, or if his excitement over becoming a father would overrule the grossness... I don't know! it's just sort of interesting to wonder about.

you make it sound like kenshin just used kaoru to get what he wants and that's children.....in my opinion i say NO WAY does kenshin think like that...he is the last person to do that....just to get married to someone so she could give him a child...kenshin would never do something that selfish...think about it....how can a peace loving wanderer who would throw away his life selflessly, and not be selfish to care for his own life for others..... be selfish enough to get married to a woman so that he could have children....if that is the case and kaoru finds out that he doesnt really love her....well lets just say he will have to find another way to go to get rid of the wastes in his body because he wont be able to get rid of it by going to the bathroom....aside from that she would be heartbroken and seeing that kenshin can easily read people he will know that marrying her without loving her will destroy her.....he would never do anything like that ...that is my opinion on that matter

antica ^_^

So in the end, does it really matter who's "better" for Kenshin? Does it only depend on our opinion?

As for him tricking himself into making him think he loves her in such a way is something he wouldn’t do he would just end up feeling guilty and hurt their relationship for lying to himself and her. and for kenshin also wanting children as well yes, but I wasn’t talking about society, I meant just kenshin, even if the society was the way you say kenshin and the others didn’t exactly follow society they marched to their own tune in their own way. kenshin is a martial artist/swordsman he was taught honor and respect. I just don’t see him pretending to love kaoru or loving her in a brotherly way and having children with her to make both of them happy. He wouldn’t be respecting her heart, and if she found out that he didn’t love her the way she wants, that would end up hurting her. how would he be making her happy? Also kenshin would say when he disagrees with something and explain why. He would tell her if he didn’t care for her that way to save her the pain of her finding out he didn’t love her that way. Better for him to tell her the truth now then her finding out when they have kids and she thinking he loves her the way she wants only to end up suffering because of that. kenshin is far too kind to hurt her in such a way.

First the "making kaoru happy" part of my theory was assailed, and now the "having a child" part. They are BOTH part of the same theory, people! according to my theory, he was NEITHER marrying her just to make her happy NOR marrying her just to have a child... the crucial point that I'm making here is that those two things fit together to make the arrangement appealing to BOTH of them, which makes it seem like the right thing to do at the time for BOTH of them; you sort out whether it actually is or not. I think the best way to explain it might be to write a fic, since it allows you to get inside a character's head a lot more and to give a relationship and a situation time to develop so a reader can see every side of it.

Okay, now that I've said THAT, ahem--LOL--I have to say that... I am totally lost... what's the topic now? LOL!! XD The original question was who was better for Kenshin, Kaoru or Tomoe; so since I'm one confused cookie, I think I'll just solicize myself and chuck out some stuff.

I believe that Tomoe and Kaoru are... *grins nervously* BOTH the right women for Kenshin. As Kenshin walked the path set out before him, Fate sent two guardians in the form of Kaoru and Tomoe to love him in the way he needed or wanted at the time in which he really needed or wanted what they had to give. Kenshin's relationship with Tomoe played a HUGE part in Kenshin's later relationship with Kaoru; so in a sense Kenshin would not be the exact Kenshin we know if he had not loved Tomoe. Therefore, KenKao would be a different pairing; and then who knows the outcome of their 'love'? Maybe they wouldn't be suited at all. Maybe because of the differences in personality and soul, Kenshin might have even died in the Revolution. It's the domino effect; each event has it's place and purpose.

If I have ever said Tomoe and Kenshin were ever in "OhmygoshIsoloooveyou" love, then I hereby change my opinion!! LOL! I believe, as has been quoted many times before, that Kenshin loved Tomoe like a comrade, since until he grasped the true value and importance of Tomoe's existance and unique form of 'friendship'--that and years of wandering and thinking and learning and healing brought him the meaning of love. Love is so different for many people; for Kenshin and Tomoe, it was a strong, iron relationship that both could count on the other to be strong and if one falls the other shall catch him/her; since they were indeed in the middle of war and certain types of weakness when you're a hitokiri can get you dead real quick.

For Kenshin and Kaoru, I think it was a gentle, peaceful relationship that in my eyes was more like friendship than anything; the final time of healing for Kenshin's scars and heart needed to be guided by someone who could accept what Kenshin must do and go through to heal, and to welcome him back with open arms and a friendly smile.

I have never considered KenKao pairing to be a steamy, lusty relationship--despite what some fanfic authors like to portray--but of course that is... WAY... OOC for the both of them!!! OO' But I do recognize the fact that the two of them made love, but....well...didn't Tomoe and Kenshin, too? Oo' Just wondering.

I have no problem with the KK pairing! (I think I should say that reguarly, because I think sometimes I make comments that can be mistaken for hateful or rivalrous stuffs) I accept other's opinions completely, but when some people (no names!) get a little infuriated with others, I feel intimidated by that and that makes me afraid to share what I have to say; even if the person is not talking to me. --' I'm supposed to be outgoing, but I guess not...LOL!

Anyhow, KenKao is a fine enough pairing on it's own; but personally, from the depths of my heart, I don't see much between them beyond... deep friendship. Not quite in-love friendship, because love IS a form of friendship; but close enough for me to mistake it at first before examining it closely. I may not be able to back up my opinions with excerpts and fancy lettering, but I just feel as a reader that KenKao is an empty pairing in some places; they don't challenge one another, as someone else said; which is vital in a relationship, otherwise it'll never progress. If one has no practice and is not challenged, how may one improve and get deeper and more excited and happy about whatever they're passionate for? It just seems awkward to me...but it is a pairing nonetheless, and I respect that! It's just so different to me that it doesn't strike me immediately as love, but as a unique form of some sort of friendship. A confusing love, yessir! LOL! XD

................you know what.... :D We're gonna be arguing about this 'till the day Jesus comes back. LOL!! XD This is such a topic, we'll never stop!! LOL! If we don't go loony first, that is....all this confusing controversy... @_@

Long live Sano/Megumi!!

So to all of you, good luck and happy readings & writings! lol...Antica...love ya, thanks for the unwavering support, I look forward to your fics!

love ya too and am looking forward for an update on your fics

^_^

Weeell...I am a preety avid KK fan, and the only KT fic I've read are ones authored by Siriusfan13 and "The Snow Raven" by Krista Perry, so if you guys have some KT stories that you could recommend, I'd be glad to read them. Just no Kaoru bashing, please...I knda hate any character bashing, in general (it's really unfair how Enishi and Tomoe get most of the fire). But that's fanfiction; in terms of the manga, I rally do like the Kenshin/Kaoru pairing. But of course, I've had a respect for Tomoe/Kenshin as any Himura Kenshin fan would.

cats are calm, quiet, etc. and dogs are energetic & want to run around & do things all the time... or at least those are the things people generally look for in a cat or dog. Tomoe would be a cat person if she had pets, but Kaoru would want a big ol' golden retriever. Kenshin would like both, though, I think. Anywho, it's one take on the question ^_^

I Searched for the fic by title (I copy-pasted!) and it got no hits! I even took out the "of" and "the" to see if that'd help, and I kept taking out words but it still didn't find the fic! Can you post a link maybe, or tell me the author's name? That might help to find it.

I thought of something else kinda interesting as I was reading back through the posts just now. Someone said they accept that Kenshin and Kaoru made love even though they didn't think the two of them were *in* love and then said "but didn't Kenshin and Tomoe too?" Avid K/T supporter that I am, I have to say I wonder myself whether they ever did. I mean, they didn't know each other that long... although consider their ages and then think of the likelihood of them *not* doing it... but what I'm saying is there's no difinitive proof that they did, although I do like to think Tomoe was Kenshin's *first*... but there's also nothing saying he wasn't experienced before he met her... umm anyway that is another debate!

Darkest Sentiments of the Heart

enjoy.

If you're super into K/K, you should watch Seisouhen (sp?). I get why a lot of people don't like it, but K/K people at least ought to like it somewhat... it even had *me* rooting for the two of them by the end. Although, I thought it provided possibilities for several altpairs also, but that's another discussion.

Excellent point about Kenshin and Tomoe possibly abstaining because it was a bad time to have children. While it's true they didn't have condoms and pills like we have now, they *did* have methods of terminating an unwanted pregnancy, though, so I'm not so sure that would have been that big a concern for them. I just think maybe they weren't to that stage yet when she died... or who knows, maybe they did.

Let me clarify something: I like both characters a great deal. I am not saying one of them is not good enough for the other, nor am I insulting either character in any way. I just don't think they are compatible with one another. People seem to keep getting the impression that I don't like Kaoru or that I am saying there is something wrong with her. There is nothing wrong with her. I just think she and Kenshin are at very different places in their lives, such that they aren't really suited to one another.

And, Watsuki said that he wasn't sure if he was going to pair up KK, but just the fact that that came into his head should say something. I understand what you are saying, and I know that people back then may not have married for love, but after so many hardships in his life, I doubt Kenshin would do everything for Kaoru just to make her happy when he didn't feel the same way.

And also, Watsuki is wrting in our era, and as much as one tries to make it like back then, the thinking is still the thinking of today. And, today's thinking is, you marry for love.

Besides, Kenshin may love kids, but Kaoru ought to realize sometime that Kenshin doesn't truly love her if that were the case. I mean, Kaoru understands Kenshin too well to be fooled. Kenshin wouldn't lead her on if he didn't love her. Besides, Kenhsin's reaction in Jinchuu was so drastic that, if he didn't love her, he would never have gone to Rakuninmura. I mean he plainly said that KAoru was the most important person to him.

An interesting aspect of KK not often explored is Kenshin in peaceful times. I remember there was one scene in the manga where Kenshin and Kaoru make remarks about Sano buying nishiki e-- that particular scene communicated what could be Kenshin's "normal" personality, and I think Kaoru plays a critical role and drawing that part of him out. Of course, there was a very sweet chapter concerning Kenshin and Tomoe living peacefully in the same regard. But it seems as though while Kenshin certainly loved and clung to Tomoe, she obviously felt quite guilty for loving another man after Akira died. Up until the point of her death, I think she was struggling to decide between Akira and Kenshin, finally realizing that there was a way she could faithful to both of them. In that regard, I don't think Tomoe would have been comfortable with a continued marriage with Kenshin, being caught between Akira, whose death she feels responsible for, and Kenshin, the man who was also responsible for her fiance's death, however kind he might be.

I think Tomoe is better suited to Kenshin. She had the maturity and she had mystery which is what I think made her fascinating to Kenshin. Even if he did love Kaoru, it would never have compared to how he felt about Tomoe.

I think that Kenshin and Tomoe did "do it". Even if she did get pregnant, she wasn't alive long enough to find out. The gaps and silences in Trust and Betrayl, to me, say that they did spend the night together... but that's just what I pick up. Other's might see it differently.

I seem to prefer the unpopular pairings for some reason (well except for InuKag!).

I think Tomoe and Kenshin were a lot better.

Kaoru was put there to give Kenshin a new girlfriend. Her character isn't interesting, nor is her story with Kenshin.

I don't hate K/K, I'm indifferent to it. I didn't read the manga, but when does Kenshin show true love for Kaoru??

thats what i wanted to say but didnt find the words. thank you =D

To be fair, Watsuki states in the beginning of the manga, he didn't know if Kaoru was going to be a love interest for Kenshin. Kenshin doesn't outright state that he loves kaoru, but I did find several of their moments to be touching.

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