This Fandom is going to Hell - Story Ideas Forum

Topic: This Fandom is going to Hell

I've been noticing some scary things:

1. Self-Including Authors- Let's all be honest...most people don't give a rats ass about your little fling.

2. Bad Slash- I write slash cause I'm a gay dude and thats what i know...people nobody wants to read something you typed out to get your rocks off.

3. Angery Het Writers- Seriously people its the internet and it fan fiction...let it go...slash writers don't bash cannon...say most sucks but there is good ones too.

4. Bad writing- You Know who you are...your the person who goes and put chat speak in your actual story...or use dumb crap like "Rawr smexy" among other things...its called english for god sakes.

I get this is a rant but oh well its been bothering the hell out of me. Don't need to flame me if ya dont like it cause if Het writers can ran the so can i. If you think Im being harsh...burn in H E Double Hockey Sticks.

#1 Jul 01st 2007, 3:42am

I mostly think it's the bad writing, when you manage a C2 you have to read a lot of stories and a lot of the het ones I read aren't well done. There ARE good ones obviously, but I agree that the fandom is going to hell. Cool! I can say 'hell' in forums, that's hella sweet.

This is just a theory, but I think during the SP 'holocaust' where ffnet removed all stories in script format and most of the SP authors went to Freedom of Speech, the pool of talent in the community dried up. No offense to anyone (unless it's Spanish Blood).

The community needs a harsh rant to get it in gear. I applaud you, PP. Bunny.

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#2 Jul 01st 2007, 5:15am

Blue Streak thanks for the applause seriously...I wasn't around during the South Park Holocaust...I was still learning how to write better...hell i still am...but I've noticed recently that its become almost annoying because there are people who can pump out good oneshots every other day...but there are a lot how can't.

I also blame the reviewer, cause if a story is badly written but involves a ship that a person has a like towards then the reviewer tends to give ghetto ass reviews like. "OH I love this story", "Aww their so cute, more please" or my all time most hated review. "Update soon"

People need to understand that their is no such thing as a flame, only a review you dont wanna accept. Lets say its a Cartman and Wendy story...and Cartman is out of character badly, and Wendy talks in chat speak. So this reader sees it, reads it and sees the love...even though the writing may be terrible. then they leave a review like this "Aw u rite them so prefectly 2getha, wanna C them have sexy time. Update soon."

This leads to the writer not wanting or thinking they need to improve their quality. So when a good constructive review comes along: this writer stubbornly pumps out more of the sub standard writing and it actas like an infection...spreading to each new writer that attempts.

this feels good to rant off about.

#3 Jul 02nd 2007, 11:00pm

I know, I love to rant on occasion, SUCH AS NOW! I wasn't around for the SPH either, I just heard about it after asking around. But I looked at some the FOSFF fictions, they're pretty good. Something that this community should still have.

If it's the reviewer's fault... AND the author's fault, then the community isn't GOING to hell, it's already there. It's already there, rented a house and been to a few luaus. What the last few remaining decent authors need to do is make the first page of the fandom full of decent stories. This should make every story people click on great to read and, hopefully, inspire them to write better.

Of course, that was my plan to show people that there are het pairings out there as well so the concept's the same, but for a different reason.

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

P.S. I couldn't NOT applaud it. You started it in my forum. Lucky for you it's something I agree with or this topic woulda been toast. ;)

#4 Jul 03rd 2007, 8:36am . Edited Jul 13th 2007, 4:45pm

A couple of points I'd like to respond to--

What exactly are you defining as "bad slash" here? Do you just mean poorly written, extremely out-of-character fanfics? Because I don't think it's fair or accurate to equate bad slash with something written for the purpose of being sexually and aesthetically pleasing (though the latter could easily be contended, given the issue of purple prose), because something could be both very well-written and "hot." Also, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you are saying that you have more of a right to write slash than women or straight men? I ask only because I've seen this sort of attitude before, and it quite baffles me. From what I can tell, it seems to be a variant of the "write what you know" mentality (one which I don't subscribe to at all, given that I'm a slash-writing lesbian), though I do believe that knowing your subject material in such an intimate way can vastly improve a story, especially in terms of emotional conveyance.

Regarding your comment about angry het writers, I think you'd probably find this interesting: http://community.livejournal.com/fanficrants/5072417.html

On bad writing, I think that there are likely a good many people out there who write fanfiction, yet are the same people who type in netspeak conversationally with such regularity that, at least to them, they are convinced that it is acceptable to write in that same style in all areas of the internet. Frankly, I feel badly for these people, since they seem completely oblivious to both the importance of coherent communication and the fact that it's nearly impossible to convey anything in terms of emotions with such writing short of using emoticons. (I've seen emoticons pop up in fanfic before, and I hope never to run across that again unless I am actively seeking out badfic.)

Concerning the reviewer's praise effect that FFN is infamous for, I couldn't agree more. I find it rather grating to see reviews that are nothing more than an exclamation of joy that, hurrah, someone wrote another fic about their OTP!, even if it contains anything less than sunshine and daisies. The thing that I find most appalling are squeeing reviews for fics about self-mutilation, psychological trauma, manipulation, abuse, and perhaps worst of all, stories where another character who was in the way of the beloved OTP is finally disposed of in some way, even if it is painfully apparent that the character is suffering. Just because you're happy that your OTP worked out in the end, is it really worth it to the characters? Is it really okay to just disregard everything that they have been through? Does the end so easily justify the means? This deeply disturbs me; that is why I prefer to read and write stories where things don't always turn out for the best, because then there is no convenient justification for the characters' experiences.

#5 Jul 13th 2007, 4:17pm

I like the way you rant. :)

But back to business, if I wasn't the one you were talking to then I'll just respond anyway. I don't think slash is bad, most of the slash writers are way better than the het ones. If anything, the het stories are more OOC and poorly-written. Although, of the slash stories I've read (Yes, I have read some) they rarely if ever deal with the whole "coming out" ordeal. It's as though suddenly all manner of sexual preferences are ok with the public of South Park, even with characters like Mrs. Garrison around. That, to me is OOC. In the het stories, it is less work because this obstacle isn't a factor, I guess I just prefer het because it tends to keep the characters more IC in my eyes.

Do you agree, though, that there is WAY too much of it? I looked up at the community yesterday and found an entire front page of Stan/Kyle fics, I would've thought it would be boring by now...

Concerning the netspeak, these people should be flamed or constructively criticised for their grammar, spelling and/or punctuation mistakes, not "w00t"-ed, "i luv dis fic"-ed or supported in their non-beta style at all. It's the only way they'll learn. *sigh*

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#6 Jul 13th 2007, 4:54pm

Heh, thank you!

I think that part of the reason for a noticable lack of "coming out" stories is because (a) it can be very emotionally draining to write about such drawn out anxiety, though I have seen a few fics that address the issue of wanting to come out and/or avoiding doing so; and (b) a vast majority of fans just want to see their OTP's interactions without having to worry about something that straight couples don't have to deal with. This can be taken as an artistic liberty in the pursuit of equality, but that doesn't mean that others won't notice the avoidance of the issue and can be considered a major plothole. Personally, I prefer to see drabbles that can ignore the issue, given that they are just short pieces and don't need to encompass so much, and plotfics that do at least somewhat address it, even if it is only in passing. I think that another reason why people might avoid the issue is because they just don't know how to deal with it and want their OTP to work out, so in many cases it's just easier to ignore or gloss over.

I would agree that there is an extremely obvious disparity between the number of slash fics and het/gen stories. Though I would not complain if there were a sudden surge of het or gen fics, I think it really comes down to what people are interested in writing, and which interests generate the most stories. Slash just happens to be the genre attracting the most interest at this point in time, it seems. So as a slash writer, I feel fortunate that there are so many others who share my interest, though I do also feel bad for the het and gen writers. Additionally, although Stan/Kyle is probably the most popular slash pairing in this fandom, I have noticed other OTP niches both here on FFN and on other sites such as DA and y!Gallery. The most common of these seem to be Kyle/Kenny, Cartman/Butters, the eternally befuddling Cartman/Kyle, and the seemingly recently growing interest in Craig/Tweek. I think that the difference in the number of regular male and female characters also probably plays a role in the difference in quantity between slash and het stories, if the rarity of femslash is any indication.

Though I don't usually agree with flaming, I do think it is important to at least make people aware that they will likely not be taken seriously if they write fanfiction in netspeak. It would be wise of such authors (or "would-be authors," as it may seem) to at the very least establish connections with someone who could beta their work and help them improve in their lacking areas.

#7 Jul 14th 2007, 5:30pm

If the 'coming out' fics are so emotionally draining then wouldn't it make the story better? To see the characters we all know and love go through what numerous other people have gone through so the reader can relate to the story more? Still, even mentioning it in a fic is a step in the 'write' (heh, pun) direction. Rather like the 'It's a gay gay gay gay gay gay gay world story,' where in the first chapter they address the issue and why it doesn't work. Their OTP could still work even if they screw up that section, I mean they're the freakin' author! They can have someone die and make the main character have a relationship with the corpse!

I do have to wonder... Why South Park? What is it about South Park that brings so many gay people and slash fans to the community rather than... I dunno, I can't think of a cartoon like that... But still, why South Park?! It just seems weird that when all four of the main boys have had major crushes on girls, especially Stan, that the slash pairing is so popular. Not that I'm angry about it, it just befuddles (that's a funny word.) me.

Much like this community needs a rant, the netspeak authors need a flame to kick-start their asses in gear. If the people don't tolerate it, the author's might improve their writing quality a bit.

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

P.S. I didn't mean to offend, if I did I apologise.

#8 Jul 20th 2007, 12:45am

I think that many people avoid the "coming out" issue because maybe they'd feel that by addressing it in one fic, they'd have to do so in all their other fics and don't want to feel tied to a particular construct, especially one so draining; as such, they may feel it to be a deterrence from writing their pairings of choice. Or I could be completely off. There are probably a great many reasons why people don't feel inclined to dealing with the issue, such as personal experience and hitting to close to home for some, or on the opposite end, they might have no idea how to relate to such an experience.

Oh, I wouldn't find it so surprising that the fandom generates so much slash fiction. It's not even a quality of the show itself that does it, really, but rather fandom as a whole; ever since the days of Star Trek, more and more slashers have made their presence known, to the point that they (at least seem to) compose the majority of several fandoms. For example, het writers in the Highlander fandom are generally seen to be an anomaly, since it has such an extensively slash-oriented fan following. I think that no matter what fandom you become involved in, you are bound to come across slashers.

Unfortunately, FFN is generally a breeding ground for badfic. In other fandoms that I've been involved in, the more selective writers tended to stick to archives and LiveJournal and avoid FFN (often referred to aS the Pit of Voles) like the Plague, unless they are actively looking for badfic as a source of amusement. However, I would definitely say that the SP section has a comparatively large number of good authors/stories. Other sections like Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter are much too terrifying for me to venture into. XD

#9 Jul 24th 2007, 8:34pm

Yargh! This topic is exactly what I've been thinking about this fandom for the past year. Three years ago, South Park was a tiny, off-the-beaten-path sort of fandom. And that made it AMAZING, mainly due to the same reasons that other indie cultures are so great - as an underdog fandom, the only ones supporting it were fans that truly loved and knew the subject matter, as opposed to newbies and casual fans. It used to be like Cheers: everybody knew your name and you knew everybody else, too. And everyone would review each other with those lovingly lengthy reviews.

Now, it seems that the fandom's been taken over by the moe crowd, simply due to the prospective for "slashiness" and "smex." I shudder to repeat the offending terms.

Anyway, I somewhat agree with your position on the "coming out" aspect. It does seem like a foolish and non-canonical thing to do. However, my pet peeve really stems from when people write fics about a couple without ample explanation as to how they got together. It really bugs me when fics open up and the main characters are all lovey dovey and calling each other pet names and readers just have to accept that they somehow became a couple. If the couple is not canon, then there ought to be some explanation; at the very least a tiny sentence of exposition, rather than expecting us to accept that they came together as a result of events unknown.

I personally would rather read about the trials of a couple finding feelings for one another than read about how cyuuute they are when they're pounding hot A. However, if the PWP ass-pounding is well-written, then I have no major problems (just a slight eye-twitch of pet peevishness).

As for the whole strage homophilia of the SP fan community... I have no idea either. Except for the fact that the main characters are male and the main female characters (Wendy and Bebe) appear with much less frequency and importance. Also, I think that in the beginning, it was sort of a good joke. I mean, what was your own first reaction at an SP slash fic? I personally thought it was a hilarious concept, but I bought it after reading the fic.

Also, the fact that it's kinda a strange thing to do (slashing SP characters, that is) fosters the whole indie aspect of the fandom, in turn causing a Bohemian-ish pseudo-society. Although that is getting ruined by the newer authors that are bringing too much of the mainstream. Before them, this fandom was pretty much free of archetypal high school fics. Granted, high school fics were inevitable, as South Park takes place in a (relatively) normal community, however there is no need for the "Stan is the jock/goth, Kyle is the nerd, Kenny is the druggie, etc" classification that goes on. And I loath seeing the boys getting turned into scenekids - I've been sick of scene for YEARS and they totally ruined indie rock for me.

I've got much more to rant about, but I'll save it for later.

~Kyuu

#10 Jul 29th 2007, 1:14pm

Glad you stumbled upon it. It's always nice to have fresh ranters in the forums. I am growing far too weary of having to wade through piles and piles of crap... fics to reach the one glittering gem in 5 pages. I suppose the good thing about it is that the badfic authors leave out capitals and punctuation in their titles and summaries, so it's easy to identify which ones are good and which literally suck the very soul from Matt and Trey's vision.

I can understand the annoyance with fics that set up characters already. I myself have done so (although I plan to write a prequel about how the couples came about) and they're in high school too... But I think it's just somehow better than the ones you seem to hate. Although I suppose mine isn't really ass-pounding in the true sense of the word.

I wonder if one were to start at the very last page of the fandom and keep clicking the 'previous' link, would one discover the turning point from amazing to... Well, gone to hell. I personally blame ffnet itself. If they hadn't removed all stories in script-format, the 'Holocaust' wouldn't have happened. The best authors wouldn't have defected to Freedom of Speech, and I think the crappy authors of today would have seen that a higher quality of writing is required to be praised in this fandom.

Still, I retain some small, shining ray of hope that things will get better. Sometimes, all you can do is believe. ;)

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#11 Jul 30th 2007, 3:43pm

I agree that one of the good things about the crappy writers is that they're so incompetent that they can't even manage to write a decent summary, thus making their fics easy enough to spot from a mile away. Still... there are so many of them.

Anyway, about characters starting out together, it's definitely alright if done in a decent manner... what bugs me is when it's done just for kicks without making any sense. I could take Stan and Wendy, for example, at face value or even Stan and Kyle, to some extent; however, when Kyle and Cartman are making out in the halls of South Park high and we're just expected to accept that... THAT is what bugs me.

I would say that the so called "Holocaust" did do damage to the SP fanfic community, but as a whole for the site, it did help somewhat. The problem is that people are still submitting fics against site TOS, and they're almost all entirely crap. So while the good script fics have been banished to FOSFF, the newer crappy ones remain here under the radar. One thing that kinda bugs me is that, while it seems that script fics are being reported left and right, nobody is doing anything about songfics, which are also against the TOS, and terminally awful. I'm sorry to all the songfic writers, but I don't need the image of a goth Stan singing Evanescence's "My Immortal" while cutting himself; but to see the silver lining of songfics, the alternative might be to cause these crappy writers to write their own crappy poetry.

Again, about high school fics... I don't mind the high school setting at all. This is one of the rare fandoms that it could actually make sense within the storyline. However... many of them are just as lame as the high school fics you'd see in fandoms where high school doesn't make any sense, like Rurouni Kenshin.

I believe that not only do people need to write better in order to make a good example for budding writers, people need to be more demanding of each other. We need to criticize each other much more baldly; not to say we should flame each other. We just need to start getting over ourselves and take the damn advice with a grain of salt.

Haha, I totally feel like an asshole, ripping on other authors, when I haven't even written anything myself for two years, but they totally need to be reamed.

~Kyuu

#12 Aug 01st 2007, 12:02am

I have no idea what's wrong with me. After reading this topic, I did a mental evaluation of the fandoms I frequent, and found that they SUCK!

Legacy of Kain: Completely random with spelling, grammar, punctuation errors and one-shots of them turning into plushies.

South Park: Speaks for itself.

Invader Zim: A community dominated by ZADR (Zim and Dib Romance AKA Slash) and also random stories with no plotlines.

Man... I think... All of fanfiction net sucks. Every fandom, a whole load of shit. A whole load of shit to wade through to get to one shining story, read it in one sitting then wish you hadn't read it so fast 'cos then you have to wade through more shit. A never-ending, vicious, unforgiveable cycle. It's like I'm trapped in a sewer, that goes around in a circle with no exits or entrances, yet the shit keeps piling up.

And now we come to my LEAST favourite thing in fanfiction EVER!

...

OOC-ness. If people don't capture a character's essence, it's basically just some people with the character's names pasted over them. (I always felt like this but after reading Dust Traveller's fics, they put it into words.)

Not to say this is the ONLY thing I hate about ffnet. Far from it, there's:

OOC

mary-sues and gary-lous

Slash with people like Stan/Kyle

Random, sugar-rush fics

Characters acting out other films/shows

Flamers

ANONYMOUS Flamers

Fics where the summary says "But what happens when..."

People who bitch about constructive criticism when they so obviously need it

and the mail-bot (but that's a given.)

Anyways, enough ranting for now. TIME FOR BED!

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#13 Aug 03rd 2007, 5:16pm

Haha, you've only now realized how crappy ff net is? It really is the pile of poo that people say it is, but I like the format of the site, so I stick around. And besides, I've been with the site forever, so I might as well keep on.

One of the scariest parts of the site are of course the more popular fandoms. They have the grand misfortune of having some of the best fics of the site, as well as the worst. So that would include fandoms such as Harry Potter, Final Fantasy VII, and Naruto. But it really depends on one's ability to recognize good from bad. It's really no different from going to a bookstore and trying to pick a book; some published works are just as awful as some of the fanfics here.

Concerning ff net culture...

I agree with you on the OOC-ness sucking balls. One thing I really hate is when characters are placed in an AU universe, as well as having different characterizations; I mean, really, what's the point in that? It makes a bit of sense when done visually (such as in a doujinshi, or the CLAMP manga Tsubasa, whose manga-ka uses her characters from CCS), because the artist wants to work with character designs. However, when it's written fiction, as you mentioned, it's as if one is just taping names over original characters.

Mary-Sues, etc: Most people write Mary-Sues without realizing it. Sometimes, you can approach an author with concrit and they will humbly come to realize that they've been writing a Mary-Sue. Other times, an author will deny this claim and try to give you weak evidence to claim their character isn't a Mary-Sue. The worst authors, however, are the youngsters and newbies, who think that Mary-Sues are an acceptable literary device. Such an example can be seen floating somewhere in the Avatar fandom, in which a naive author tries to feebly argue in favor of Mary-Sues, leading to a witty repartee with more experienced authors who are trying to help her.

Slash, BL, yaoi: I don't hate this stuff, and I would be a total hypocrite to say that I did. What I do hate is the general culture of fans with these leanings (what I call the "Moe culture"). I hate people who positively review crappy fics, and many slash and yaoi fans will do such a thing just because they like the coupling. Really, that's just as stupid as people flaming a good fic because they hate the coupling. It's immature. And it's definitely not limited to fans of slash - plenty of het fans act the same way... it just happens to be more rampant in the slash and yaoi culture (probably due to the underdog nature).

Stan/Kyle: It pains me that you dislike them, lol. But I admit, the fact that they're such a popular couple is annoying. When this fandom was still young, it seemed like the vogue couple was Kenny/Kyle (which, BTW, is the vogue couple in the Japanese SP fandom). Of course, that was long ago, and we can't go back in time. Frankly, I have no reservations against any coupling whatsoever; it's only a matter of whether the author has enough skills to make it work or not. And evidently, many do not.

Sugar-High: Okay, everybody has days where they have to do something stupid. Everybody has days when they write crap. There is absolutely no need to make your stupidity public.

Characters put into the plot of a different series: On some occasions, this works out quite well. The problem is when crappier writers try to copy the good ones. Just no, okay?

Flamers and the like: Actually, right now I love flamers, even if they flame my own fics. They kinda keep my mood light, because when I see people getting really mad about what flamers say about their fics, it reminds me that no one ought to take the stuff they write on this site too seriously. We're writers of freakin' fan fiction. Take your writing skills seriously, but don't take your fics seriously because if you have to slap a disclaimer on it, you can't really do much with it anyway. Don't blow up just because somebody else wants to be a jerk.

Crap Summaries: Again, these are a bit of a mixed blessing. They're the red flag which tells you that the fic is probably not worth reading, if the writer can hardly manage to work out a thesis statement regarding their piece.

People who can't take crit: Yup, they're dumb, and too stubborn to change. But I'd keep on offering concrit in the hopes that they'll one day actually use it, or perhaps get so annoyed with me, they'll leave the site and take their stubbornness with them.

Mail-Bot: I don't see what the problem is with the mailbot. You can customize it any way you want. Unless your talking about the times that the site hiccups and sends backlogs of previously sent alerts.

So, I maintain the view that the best course of action is to blast concrit at offending authors, hoping that one day they will grow to be better writers.

#14 Aug 03rd 2007, 6:34pm

Kyuu, I agree with you on so many points - especially the slash bias factor. Just because someone writes the couple you like does not make it automatically wonderful, and people who treat it otherwise frustrate me to no end. In fact I'd think that if someone were writing for a pairing you like, you ought to be even more discerning, since it means you've probably waded through many crappy stories for your OTP to find the good ones. (And oh god, how so many Stan/Kyle fics have burned my eyes in my search for goodfic...) If they're out of character, I can't even honestly see it as my OTP, because they're not the same person, and it drives me crazy. I think people need to stop worrying so much about their OTPs and worry a little more about the quality of what exactly it is that they're writing. Not that fanfiction needs to be of the best imaginable calibre, but it would help to at least know how to write a decent story. (Haha, does that sound elitist or what?)

I wish I could say I've never written one of those "sugar high" fics, but I did long ago in a past fandom (Yugioh). On the one hand, I can see how it could be amusing to the person who wrote it, and their friends as an "inside joke" type of thing... but really, putting it out there just means realizing later how much of a bad idea that was at the time.

As for using the plots of other shows/movies/etc., I can see how it could pose for interesting crossovers, and admittedly I'm actually in the process of writing a crossover fic (Highlander and Supernatural, in which Dean is an immortal). However, there is a huge difference between crossovers and forcing the characters into the plot of something else and essentially destroying their character in all but name. The Romeo & Juliet complex is perhaps one of the things in fandom that most makes me want to flip out and kill things - part of the reason for that being that R&J was one of Shakespeare's worst plays in the first place, and not even originally his in concept (re: Tristan and Isolde, or even further back to Pyramus and Thisbe). If people want to force characters into plotlines that have nothing to do with the show, why not try something different? Why not Sense & Sensibility, or Much Ado About Nothing, or even something like My Fair Lady or Man of La Mancha? Granted they're just examples and I'd much rather see original plots, but in my opinion, they're better options than R&J or stuffing the characters into the Naruto universe.

You know what kind of surprises me? The heteronormativity of Mary Sues. Where are the femslash Sues and the slash Stus? You'd think that if people insist on creating their own characters to stuff into the show, they could be at least a bit more diverse. Hell, as much as I dislike Sues, I'd read a slash/femslash one just for the novelty of it (though actually liking it is a wholly different story).

#15 Aug 03rd 2007, 8:16pm

Good Gods I go on vacation and come back to find this all rather populated with a really good conversation. And I think ya'll hit some really good points. On the crossover subject i got to agree with what Im thinking is being said. A crossover needs to be compatible or at least not stupidly over used like Romeo and Juliet. I admit I'm doing a slash crossover of The Shining and South Park, yes its Style but at least its not like the umpth time its been done.

Sues- thats actually a good idea, a gay sue, might have to do that

#16 Aug 04th 2007, 3:46am

That whole matter of the OTP, I totally agree. If it's an OTP that one is reading, one ought to be much more discerning, rather than accepting. And it's true, people also ought to focus more on writing quality than OTPs, but honestly, most people probably turn to fanfiction because their OTP happened to not fulfill itself in canon (it can be easily said that number of romance fics number of all other fics).

Yup, sugar-high fics are written by EVERYONE. I'd written plenty when I was younger. It's okay to write a sugar-high fic. It's NOT okay to post it. But this tends to be a crime of newbie authors, so it's not such an awful crime. They don't know any better, so it's up to jaded veterans to totally rip them apart, haha j/k.

And the crossover plot thing truly is an interesting idea, I must admit. I've been seeing quite a few of these placing a character in the Final Fantasy X universe (which is a surprisingly easy situation to set up). The problem is that they take the characters from the original series, but plunk them in to FFX world, and also make them acquire the personalities from FFX. And there you have a copy of the FFX script, but with different names and clothes. Whoopee.

Frankly, Much Ado About Nothing is used quite often. It just happens to have been so influential in Anglophone pop culture that people don't realize that a Shakespeare play was the source. And I hate Romeo and Juliet, so even if it weren't such a popular plot for fanfic authors to ream... I loved Pygmalion/My Fair Lady, so I would really like people to use that plot. Unfortunately, I've seen it done to bad results, and furthermore, they cited their source as the nineties romantic comedy She's All That (not that She's All That was that awful of an adaptation, but to think that people don't know that it's an adaptation scares me). Don Quijote would be such an interesting remake, though.

Haha, I think Sues are all straight because their main goal is to recreate and populate the fanfic universe with their kind.

#17 Aug 04th 2007, 5:29pm

but it seems like you are saying that you have more of a right to write slash than women or straight men? I ask only because I've seen this sort of attitude before, and it quite baffles me. From what I can tell, it seems to be a variant of the "write what you know" mentality (one which I don't subscribe to at all, given that I'm a slash-writing lesbian)

I guess I need to clarify somethings because I don't want to be mislabeled as something Im not. I don't think any relationship is better then any other group. What I meant was simply that because I am gay, I started out writing them, often quite bad. I think as long as it is well written, any type of couple is acceptable.

And yes I found that like actually amusing because I sit there and watch people bicker about pointless things like that. I mean it's fanfiction sure, so you can write anything you want but people shouldn't argue about it. Seriously though people take things far to seriously. What actually upsets me about stories is the far that people don't just break the rules of the fandom but reality.

I know this was a late response but I figured I should answer it anyway.

#18 Aug 05th 2007, 10:59pm

I think I need to clarify some things as well. I do NOT hate slash. I just don't read it. I tolerate it, but don't support it. It's kind of hard to understand... It's like... a balance between knowing it's there and just knowing you won't like it. I tried a couple of times but...

Anyways, when I said the fics where characters are used to act out other media, like Romeo and Juliet and the like. I was actually talking about movies where the author quotes, word for word and regardless of the characters' personalities, the entire movie and the events that occurred. Un-original, pointless and people realise it. And when they do, they say something like "Great story! But I think this sentence is from ____ movie. i heart dis feec!" It's stupid. I read a fic earlier today, where all the characters dies except the main protagonist, who suddenly becomes James Bond. Total crap.

If the Write What You Know mentality affects everyone in the community, then that means 91 per cent of the fandom is homosexual. Not that I have a problem with it. It just makes my dream of a het-increased fandom look evermore hopeless. Still, never give up, always darkest before dawn, etcetera.

Badfics aren't exclusive to pairings, is something else I've noticed. I've read some het stories that suck absolute donkey balls. And I'm sure there are some shitty slash fics as well. The problem is the authors. Fuggin authors.

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#19 Aug 13th 2007, 3:12am . Edited Aug 13th 2007, 3:00pm

Yes I doubt very highly that the "write what u know" its the norm with most people, because if it is I feel sorry for the hetero guys out there. True with the authors but as i said before I blame the review for reinforcing the bad habits of writers. I mean I only got better after being corrected, and after many fail attempts at stories. I think thats the only why to improve, be criticized and grow from it.

But I've been thinking about why girls (those who do write slash) write slash. Sure some people find it attractive or whatever, personally I read for the quality not slash or pairings; anyway I think fangirls write slash at least at first because they would rather read about their 2 favorite characters doing the nasty then some chick (wendy, bebe, etc. or an OC) stepping in and clouding up the fantasies or whatever they may have.

#20 Sep 01st 2007, 12:40am

At least with the het stories there's a fantasy where the authors could step in and have an affair with their favourite characters. With slash it'll be like 'I'm gay, it's not gonna happen' or something. But whatever, I think we've already established that this fandom and indeed the whole site has pretty much gone to hell in a hand basket. Agreed?

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#21 Sep 01st 2007, 1:38am

Agreed!

#22 Sep 01st 2007, 9:21pm

I don't hate slash stories, I'm just a bit mad that they are all over the place. The first time I went on to FF.net I completely avoided the SP section because I only found 2 or 3 het stories. Plus, I mean there's boy slash, why no girl slash? I'm not being perverted, but I think things need to be evened up. Although one big problem is that SP is almost entirely guys.

Another thing bothering me here is that there are so many oneshots. I wish there was a way to sort out, or in oneshots.

Plus, there's no Timmy stories! :(

I wrote one story, which was, for a change, non-romance except for a paragraph mentioning a possibility of StanWendy. (Kenny's Dilema)

I personally tried writing a slash story, but it was...weird. It was like writing a lie. I'm not joking. Plus I think I just did a crappy job, it was only like my third fanfic ever, and the first non-script one.

#23 Sep 27th 2007, 6:46pm

Lunagrrl180

Has anyone noticed that for the past couple of days we have been getting a bunch of crappy fics from thirteen year olds on sugar highs?*coughrandomcrackficshowcough* Regarding slash, I don't mind it, but I think Stan/Kyle has been overdone. I tried writing a slash story too, and it just didn't work. Weirdly enough, even though I hated it, other people seemed to like it. I think I might delete it anyway...

#24 Oct 16th 2007, 2:14pm

While I'd like to say something like: 'Write for yourself, for you're the only one who matters', that would also be an excuse for sugar high writers to infest the fandom. I have noticed a large increase in the number of sugar rush fics recently, and think I might copy and paste the quote from an earlier post.

"Okay, everybody has days where they have to do something stupid. Everybody has days when they write crap. There is absolutely no need to make your stupidity public." - KyuuketsukiShounen

I fear the quality of the fandom may be lost, but it need not be lost forever, we should constuctively criticise authors almost to the point of flame (but not quite). It might be the only way to save South Park... fanfiction.

...Or not.

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#25 Oct 16th 2007, 2:40pm

Lunagrrl180

I think it's because a lot of the younger authors are writing het and older/more mature writers are writing slash. Not that there aren't talented younger writers out there, but a lot of them seem to be somewhat new to writing. Or they just ignore spelling/grammar.

That's my theory, anyway. Or maybe the slash writers have betas? Most of these authors are very open to concrit, which is nice.

#26 Oct 25th 2007, 6:37pm

Fermata

I've read what everyone has to say and you guys make some good points.

I don't find it necessary to repeat what's already been said.

What I despise the most is calling the Stan and Kyle pairing Style. I hate abbreviating the pairings names just to make things easier. I'm sure I've done it myself but I can't remember. Plus, it sounds weird.

What bug does fanfiction have up their ass about no script stories? If that rule still applied today, you can be sure that I'd be all over it. Isn't that what TV is, scripting? Don't the actors read from a script? So it would make sense to me to write a fan fic in script format. If you wanted it to be an actual story, then that's different. A script can still be good, even though it's not written like a book.

Why do both freedom and fiction press allow scripts but not fanfiction? I'm really confused. Aren't they all run by the same people?

I like to write slash because I think it's more dramatic and intereting than writing about a straight couple. So many different things can happen. Also, I only write one shots because I hate updating chaptered fics. I hate being on a schedule where everyone is expecting me to update soon and more often than not, I end up disappointing them because I leave the entire story unfinished. I have 2 or 3 chaptered fics unfinished right now, which I'm thinking of removing.

In all honesty, there are only 2 or 3 slash authors on this site that are actually any good at all. I'm not including myself.

#27 Oct 30th 2007, 9:15pm

Yep, I totally hate combined names for couples... especially Style. With South Park it just really bugs me - I think that name-squashing is more legitimate in anime, as its a little more common in the Japanese context to compound names - but it doesn't work out that way for English.

I think the reason FF got rid of scripts is the fact that while many authors wrote amazing script-format fics, these were proportionally a minute speck in comparison to the sea of shitty script-format fics. If FF allowed script format, sure we'd get some great scriptfics... but then also a sea of crappy scriptfics, and even more crappy chatfics. It's kinda the same as the whole issue with banning NC-17 fics - there's no inherent problem with them, but all the little problems that occur just add up and make them not worth the effort.

I'm not exactly saying I support FF's stance, but just playing devil's advocate.

I don't think slash is necessarily more dramatic than het... it's just that het requires more creativity to create drama, whereas slash creates drama by its interaction with the culture of the show. Also, I agree with whomever said that slash tends to be better written due to having an experienced author-base. Young writers can be awesome - it's the naivety that messes people up. Naive or closed-minded people will lean towards het and do it badly, and a lot of open-minded people will write great het stories and will also be more open to writing slash and other non-canonical but creative ideas.

Of course, there are lots of "open-minded" people who write awful slash as some kind of fan-girl gratification. But as they say, there's a black sheep in every family.

#28 Oct 31st 2007, 3:11pm

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3876462/1/IF_IT_MAKES_YOU_HAPPYYYYYYYYYYY

Yes well I pretty sure i found the worst fanfiction...Slash or Het...ever...I hope this was a goof cuz if not this truly sums up this thread completely.

Its really sad

#29 Nov 06th 2007, 9:29pm

I think that fic is really just an awful attempt at parodying what we're complaining about. It's annoyingly ironic that in his/her attempt to make a statement about the trash in the SP fandom, he/she just adds to the trash - same for when people email meta-spam. Rather than wasting FF.net fic space to make comment, she/he should've just joined us in the rant, or instead have written something worth reading to counter all the crap.

~Kyuu

#30 Nov 07th 2007, 1:08am

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3878365/1/In_Defense_of_The_Fandom

my thoughts exactly...although hopefully y'all don't get annoyed with this but I'm trying something...so he comes shameless self promotion...fun isn't it.

#31 Nov 07th 2007, 3:50pm

Nevermind I already lost inspiration...god I suck.

#32 Nov 16th 2007, 11:51pm

We all lose inspiration once in a while, you just need to learn to think sideways. I think there's a book about that somewhere... Anyways, I liked the story. Even if it has been removed I still remember it being far better than the f**ked up on crack random show *rolls eyes*

Keep trying and the muse'll come back. It always does. ;)

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#33 Nov 17th 2007, 11:16am

Genis Aurion

Though I agree in most of your points, it just comes down to the fact that bad writing's always going to be there. People will always bash slash. It's never really going to go away.

Enthusiasm in this Fandom has definitely gone down, I'll say that much. Even for some good writers I've noticed less and less people are reviewing works that DESERVE to be reviewed. And I don't know how many people I speak for, but when more and more works go un-reviewed it simply creates less of a motivation to continue.

I have no idea where I'm going with this. Yes, the South Park fandom is dying and "going to hell." No, it's problems will never go away. And yes, the fault is both of the writer's and the reader's.

For those authors who still persist, however, I applaud you. I'm glad people give me something to read still, however crappy. At least they're making the effort to let this fandom live on.

I'll stop now before this hole I've dug gets too deep.

#34 Nov 18th 2007, 3:01pm

Otempora42

I think the main problem with fanfic is that most of the writers are young. Too young for South Park in my opinion, but nevermind that. Almost all teenage writers are bad, and they're not going to get any better because of "OMG SO CUTE UPDATE" reviews. They need constructive reviews to get better, and, more importantly, they need to learn how to take them. That's not easy, if any of you remember your first real critique. I like to review what I read, and I try to make it constructive, although generally it turns out to be a glorified "OMG AWSOME".

Bad fic... I have definitely written more than my fair share of crap. The thing is to try and learn from what went wrong and avoid it in the future.

(I basically agree with most of the points above, by the way).

#35 Nov 20th 2007, 7:57am

Genis Aurion

The thing is, all writers have to start from somewhere. So everyone's gotta produce some bad work before they make something good.

But I disagree with the teenage writers thing. I know some teenagers who can write some damn good stuff. I'm a teenager, and I don't think I write bad (though not Godly, either). It all depends on your way with words.

#36 Nov 20th 2007, 6:34pm

Zak, this isn't me kissing your ass but god damn you are really good...to the point that after reading your stuff I go look at mine and go "Aw hell". So glad to see you aren't conceited but never sell yourself short. And yeah my muse has sort of come back...but it has no direction...cuz on my one slash story i already have I got like 2 reviews; Which at least is something but I feel like updating less and less.

I don't wanna abandon the fandom cuz I love it...but I'm really getting worn out from it.

#37 Nov 20th 2007, 7:33pm

The best fanfics I've read here are the oldies. Perhaps some of most interesting Slash I've read is an old Cartman/Kenny fic from long ago. It actually was well-written, it actually had decent writing and best of all, it didn't seem to be written by someone horny. Although I don't like Slash, it can be tolerable when there's the right amount.

#38 Nov 20th 2007, 8:09pm

Agreed...mostly because I can't stand a story...who am I kidding...slash fic where the characters are trying to get into each others pants every other chapter...It's kinda gross.

#39 Nov 20th 2007, 8:26pm

Otempora42

I know some teenagers who write really well, too, and I like to think that I'm not terrible (good is another thing). But most of the stuff I read that is written by my peers is pretty good. Not amazing, but pretty good. And then there's the bad stuff. Generally it's the teenagers who are closer to the thirteen end of the spectrum that are the worst offenders, although this is far from a rule.

Anyway, there will always be exceptions to the rule. Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein when she was nineteen. But a good number of teenage writers are bad, and several of those are on ff.net. Here's a good article about teenage writers: http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/004175.html

#40 Nov 21st 2007, 7:29am

Genis Aurion

See, when people tell me I'm super-amazing, I usually just tell them that they haven't read enough of the fandom. Because there are so so so so SO MANY other writers that write here who are better than I am.

But I read that article Otempora42 put up, and I agree with a bit of what that person had to say. But I'm not sure if his tips entirely imply to fanfiction, because between original works and fan fiction it's a whole new world. We can get away with so much in fan fiction, such as characterizations and personality developments, and sometimes we don't realize that's usually the hardest part.

...I'm sorta going off the forum topic now. I'm sorry.

#41 Nov 21st 2007, 8:14am

Zennou

Maybe it's because I'm new to the South Park fandom, but the fandom doesn't seem to be entirely going to hell. Condemning it certainly doesn't help, especially when it's wasting precious writing time ;) Sure there's badfic, but with badfic I've managed to sniff out some real gems here. The place is flooded with a lot of fanfiction being similiar but the fact of the matter is, we've really just got to get our nose to the grindstone and make an effort to try and improve the fandom. Review, review, review I say. See some badfic, review it and tell them how to improve. See some under-appreaciated fic? Review it, and give the author encouragement.

And age shouldn't really mean anything :P I've seen authors in their mid-twenties pulling crap out their arse, but I've seen 13-year-olds really putting all their efforts and, as cheesy as it sounds, heart into a fic, and it shows. It really, really shows.

#42 Nov 21st 2007, 3:25pm

Age doesn't matter to me. I'm young, and I personally think I'm at least medicore of a writer. My friend wrote a passage for his book idea when he was 10 or 11 that was fantastic, and literally read like part of a book. He even helped me write 'The Return of Towlie'

The simple problem is that many people who write fanfiction simply do it to write romantic scenes. I personally have found only one or two non-romance fics that were not in M, and many of them are attempts at humor which frankly sucked. I just wish someone could write a paragraph story that was just epic and awesome. It seems like most stories are written either like a real episode - which is too simplistic for me - or are written long, complex and slashy.

Blame Canada.

#43 Nov 21st 2007, 3:42pm

There are lots of factors in play to work out the worst type of author or the best type of author. But when you get right down to it, everyone is different, with differing levels of skill in writing. If one person is a certain age and gender from a certain place with awesome mad skillz, that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone in that age range, gender and hometown are as great as they are. Still, from the work that people have posted here, most of the ones writing badfics ARE, in fact, young teenagers.

I've been trying to issue challenges that don't have any pairings in 'em, but not many people are accepting. Doesn't really matter, but sp150's right. There are a few too many romance stories in here. Not that I'm complaining... (Who am I kidding? I'm English, we LOVE to complain.)

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#44 Nov 23rd 2007, 10:45am

And Zak, listen to a 'Fanatic' (These 'levels' are kinda lame -.-). I've been here for more than two years, reading tons of fictions in that time and YOU are one of the few greats that I've come across. There's you, Dust Traveller, Raina1, theJennaMonster, AzureF, Sweet Roses and Jaderabbyt. Seven people who I would love to meet personally and shake their hand/glomp.

But don't let this inflate your ego TOO much. You're only as good as your last chapter, after all. :D

OBEY THE FIST!

VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

#45 Nov 23rd 2007, 10:52am

Yeah I'm agreeing with Blue Streak here. Anyway what I had meant by my statement was that you are better then you think and shouldn't think to highly or too low of your own work. Good point, what is with the levels (I know this is off topic but I just noticed them). Anyway I hope that you, Zak, didn't take what I said to mean you were anything more than a really good writer...I defiantly didn't mean that you were some kind of god...lol

#46 Nov 23rd 2007, 12:47pm

All I want is a detailed non-script fic without romance or with only tiny bits of it. Most people make romance heavy. I mean, am I the only person alive who isn't in love?

#47 Nov 23rd 2007, 2:08pm

Here Here sp150...while ya my only story right now counts as a slash or whatever because its 2 dude...I don't focus on it. That why I'm putting Stan Kyle and their adopted child through hell...mostly because I'm a bastard and cuz I can...fun isn't it.

#48 Nov 23rd 2007, 7:07pm

Lunagrrl180

I think that this section does need some more con-crit. I'm included in that because I'm lazy and sometimes I don't always con-crit a story, especially when it needs it.

On the other hand, authors need to be more accepting of con-crit. I have a seperate account for con-crit and I have gotten the "OMGz YoU R sooooo meaN, u hve No LiFE!!!1!!!!!1!1eleventy-one!11!!

Well, maybe that was a bit overboard, but you know what I mean. ;)

I do admit, in comparsion to other fandoms, we haven't died in the true sense of the word. Fruits Basket, for instance, has gone to hell, never to return.

#49 Nov 24th 2007, 3:06pm