Forgiveness can also depend on the thing that needs to be forgiven. I personally believe that if you murder someone, there is no way to be forgiven for that. But a smaller thing can be forgiven.

Right. But, just to remind you, one can be forgiven for murder if it was used for self-defense or if the murder was unintended. (I would probably stab someone multiple times if they tried to rape me. O-o Biggest fear ever.)

But Light isn't sorry for killing people because of his 'I can do no wrong mentallity.' He can't be forgiven for punishing criminals because it wasn't his place to kill them in the first place. Even if he started out with a good cause, it doesn't justify all the people he sacrificed to try to reach his ideal world.

That's right. He was actually sorry and shocked at his curious actions when he first tried out the notebook. I can sort of forgive him for that, because he was human. But after that, he just went completely mental and confused himself as a god.

The only way that it could be justified is if he won. Because if he wins, he's god; but if he loses, he's just another criminal.

No, no. Just remember what Near said: everyone has their own views on justification. If he had won, he still would not have been a god, but just lucky (does not have another word at the moment) that he had outwitted Near. He had lost, and he still was the same Kira he was, although he actually admitted to being Kira, therefore, admitting to his defeat, because throughout the whole series, he never tried admitting he was Kira.

I would forgive a person for murder if it was in self-defense, I was talking about someone who killed out of cold blood or in the heat of passion. If someone was trying to kill or hurt me, I would fight back with everything I had, even if it killed them.

That's right. He was actually sorry and shocked at his curious actions when he first tried out the notebook. I can sort of forgive him for that, because he was human. But after that, he just went completely mental and confused himself as god.

That's why Death Note reminds me of Macbeth. During the course of both stories, the main character loses his sense of humanity. In both cases, Macbeth and Light become monsters in order to stay in power. They both agree that they would kill people, if they knew they wouldn't get caught. And like in Macbeth, Light kills the person that is important to everyone, L; L is the equivalent to Duncan in Macbeth. By killing L, Light motivates the only people that can stop him, Mello and Near. Then they regain their sense of humanity, Macbeth feels remorse for what he does and Light feels panicked that he is going to die. (Sorry about the Macbeth rampage, I spent all of last semester picking it apart and it's still in my head.)

Everyone does have their own views on justification, Light could just manipulate people using fear to follow his ideals, and possibly changing their view to his. 'If he wins, he's god; if he loses, he's a criminal' is just Light's own view of the situation. For example; when L died, Light officially had no one standing in his way and could therefor rule as Kira without fear. But when Mello and Near came, it restarted the contest, if he won against the two of them, he could do whatever he wanted and be 'god', but if he lost to them, he would be just another person that would go to jail for murder.

Admitting he was Kira wasn't a real loss, I think. His ego would have most likely had him admitting to the world that he was Kira when he had enough followers that the police couldn't stop him. He probably figured that the world would have to bow down to him or he would kill them. His admission wasn't really what caused him to lose, it was the fact that he still tried to kill Near. If he had waited, then he could have killed them with the paper in his watch, when they were taking him to jail. He could have killed all the members of the Task Force and the SPK and then made up a story for the police, proclaiming that his was the very fortunate survivor of a tragic accident.

Talking about Light always makes me a bit sad because it seems like I am the only one who loves him, even more than L (although I like L, too) and that is while I believe that yes, Light is evil and yes, he is insane. But for me, him being evil and insane doesn't stop me from liking him; on the contrary, it makes him a lot more interesting. Light is one of the most interesting characters in any work of fiction I've come across and I honestly believe he is just a wonderfully complex character (L, as much as I love him, garners fan appeal mostly because of how cute he is and because of his quirks - his personality itself, I believe, is fairly straight-forward and not as layered as Light's) and Death Note wouldn't be half as entertaining without watching Light succumbing to madness.

I can understand why people would hate him for killing L, but it seems to me like they too easily forget that L, too, would have killed Light if he had gotten to him first. L is undoubtedly the more just character between the two, but I do not think he is a moral role model, either.

All in all, Light is my favourite character in all of DN, and it's a rather lonely club indeed.

We are a rather lonely club, aren't we?

And I love how you pointed out that L's character is more 2 dimensional then Raito's. It really is true.

As for Raito falling victim to his inner insanity, it is what makes the story so interesting. Granted it's what the story is mostly about, but yes, very entertaining.

L is not moral at all, at least in terms of the world's moral code. He does operate outside of the law, and some of his methods are questionable. In my eyes Raito and L stand upon an equal footing of morality. One has simply already been accepted by the police, the other, regarded more religiously then legally.

Most cult leaders are.

Hmm....good point. Light did kind of have a cult going on, didn't he? Too bad nobody knew that HE was Kira, besides L. He would've been worshipped (in person)

Has anyone but me ever wondered if Light was depressed?

Actually, I thought about that, and Light being depressed seems to make sense. After all, at the beginning of the show, he did seem rather depressed, in my opinion.

God says no.

I like Light and I also like L and for the people that hate him for what he did to L *sniff*,at least Light said that Near wearing L's mask was Wrong cause Near was much lower to L.He gave L profs and respect at the end and he always did value L as a Great rival and Light told(in a way )L that he was Kira at the end .(I still think Near is cute!)oh and I find the way Light ...you know..*sniff*a bit ...okay a lot sad but the end was ...lovely. oh and yeay ,he kinda looked depressed at the begging anyway.When he went insan it was AWSOME! but we all knew that this series would not end with a happy ending even though we really wish it did .(well at least I do)

I think my least favorite of the cast is Light. But I don't hate his guts, per se, and I don't wish him harm (after all, he's already dead, having suffered a violent and pathetic death worse than what I could imagine). In fact, I can't help but feel sorry for the poor S.O.B. Quoting Herbert Spencer: "A tyrant is a slave turned inside-out."

I, too, wish for something better. I admire Light for deciding to act on his convictions, but I don't like how he did it. Really, you can't totally destroy evil, because it's an inherent part of human nature, always was, always will be, even in the "good guys." To obliterate evil, you'd have to wipe out all of humanity. In his quest against evil, Light became evil himself...or rather, the evil already present in his psyche got to fully manifest itself. His means of delivering justice is like cutting down a whole forest so he could build a magnificant stage on which to preach about conversation.

Might sound stupid, but I'd think that a true savior is someone with no biases, who'd want nothing except to, without expecting reward, influence the world--and help everyone in it--with peace, love and understanding, not with intimidation and deception. But I guess that's why no one person can play savior or judge for the world. And after a while, Light's ambition started to look more like a desire to rule the world than to save it. Whatever help he got from those who believed in him, he did not appreciate at all; he became very self-centered and lost his empathy for other people.

Worst of all: he honestly thought that he was a righteous person, on the grounds of being a hard-working honor student with a major in law enforcement/ detective work. It's one thing to lie to others; it's even worse when you lie to yourself. Now, I'm not going to deny that L was a jerk, too. But at least he was more honest about it.

I think the problem is that no one can seem to agree on what evil looks like, or how we should properly cope with it.

Overall, I can't say I loathe Light, because wouldn't that make me a hypocrite if I did? If only he never got his memories back as Death Note...but hey, the way he set it up so that he would eventually regain them, it was only a matter of time. Because of this, Light may have been L's first friend, but their friendship was false, doomed from the very beginning.

(Meh, I find that I relate better to fictional characters than to real people; should I worry?)

Hmmm.... I know the question isn't directed to me but whatever...

If I got a Death Note, I'm not sure what I'd do. Truthfully... I'd be very tempted use it to try and make America a better place. Interpret that as you will.

However, I think I'd be too weak to continue or even to start. I'd probably be plagued by doubts, lots of 'what ifs'. I'd probably so revolted that I actually killed someone that I might commit suicide. Therefore, I'm thinking I would just burn it. I am a Christian, so I'd probably end up convincing myself that it's not worth going against almost every rule that God has set down but I know I would be so tempted to use it.

Meh... L always knew that Light was Kira, and he probably did know that Light would kill him in episode 25.

We'll be parting ways soon...

Anyway, L could have probably found a way to kill Light easily. Give him a drug that would give him a heart attack and pass it off as Kira killing him or something. No one would really be smart enough to find the connection that after Light died the killings stopped if L played it right... but that's just not L. He's obsessed with justice, and he would not kill Light until he had the law by his side, until legally he could be convicted and executed.

That said, I never hated Light for killing L. I was crushed when he died, but to me, it's still just a storyline, and I think if L didn't die it would seem fake and wouldn't be as interesting as it ended up being. No, I'm against Light because what he's doing is wrong, period. He's just as bad as those he's killing, where and why is he justified for doing what he's doing?

Light is a very interesting character, fun to talk about, true to life... but simple to figure out. Main reason that I don't like his character. You know what he wants, why he wants it and you can easily see his gradual deprication. He's not... enigmatic in the way L is. Or B, for that matter. B is a (I'm tempted to say much) better antogonist (although in reality they're both protagonists with L being the antagonist but most people think of protagonists as the good guys so... -shrugs-) than Light because he's enigmatic, he's complex, multi-faceted and not easy to figure out. I could spend hours writing about different aspects of B's character and different possible aspects. With Light? Not so much.

You're probably asking yourself 'why did AuthorofScifi bring B into this'?

Well... mostly because I'm obssessed with B and L but that doesn't negate the point I was trying to make!

-grins sheepishly-

Talk about pathetic death, I mean, being shot by Matsuda of all people?! Lol I'd bet a lot of money that Light would rather go down caught by L than shot by Matsuda : P

Actually Ryuk killed him, not Matsuda.

I just normally think that Matsuda killed him because Ryuk finished what he started. Although.... huh, he probably would have lived in jail if Ryuk hadn't killed him, since Ryuk can see his lifespan... well, getting shot by Matsuda is still kind of... sad?

It was pathetic. First time I ever hated Light.

Oh, I never really hated Light. I don't agree with a lot of his principles but meh... I just could never hate him. I dislike him.

Well when you spend the entirety of the series loving him and then are forced to bare witness to that...you just hate him for acting so pathetically. It was just painful to watch.

Uh huh, yeah, I just remember facepalming during that part, it is really painful to watch. He is pretty pathetic at the end. You'd think he would just stand, take his fate, accept that he lost, and not be such a wimp about it but he kind of... yelled and screamed and basically threw a glorified hissy fit.

Kira is childish and hates to lose.

We know L... we know. At least, now we do, he didn't really exhibit a childishness until the end with his glorified hissy fit (I need to patent that O.o). Well sort of just not to that extreme.

I liked how L died. He knew he was right, and he dies thinking that. No panic, no hysteria, no begging. It was just classy.

Light... I had never been more disappointed in a character's death scene. What's worse, in the anime he actually tried to run. RUN! HE RAN!

I like how he died as well. He took it with a smirk (he sort of smirk-ished at the end. It's really subtle but I think it's there...). And no, no panic, no thrashing, no hysteria, no OH MY GOD I'M HAVING A HEART ATTACK!!

More like he tried to plow through the ground, failed, then tried to use his godlike powers to tear the wall down, failed, got shot, and then managed to pry open a door, limp/run away then just plain limp to his death on stairs.

Lol.

I think that smirk is my favorite expression of L's.

Simply for that reason I like the manga version of Light's death better, it was quicker. The anime made me want to cry...

Same here. Or his 'justice will prevail no matter what' smile, lol.

...na, it's too happy -(

Anime version kind of made me want to laugh... then cry.

That ones cute!

Did I miss-read that, or are you just a seriously iimo kid?

I'm not emo or goth or anything like that. When people ask what stereotype I would describe myself as I just say I'm me. No other way to say it.

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