One of the biggest problems I have seen in the Yuffentine fics is that, well, it's crap. Not just spelling and grammar, which are important, but the general quality of VY fic out there is nonexistent. Even if it's properly punctuated and the spelling is good, the fic is out-of-character or has a seriously stupid plot.

So here's a quick guide to writing a fic that I'll actually read.

01. Use proper spelling and grammar.

I don't care if your 9th grade English teacher doesn't dock you for spelling unless he/she literally can't read what you're writing. I really don't. In fact, I wholeheartedly DISAGREE with this policy. Spelling and grammar are important.

In short: incorrect spelling, improper grammar, inserting author's notes in the body of the story, etc., makes you look like a retard. Also, it makes all the rest of us VY writers look stupid, and then we get a bad rap, and I nearly cry.

02. Have a decent, believable plot. In fact, you might want to make the plot more important than the pairing.

Yes, you heard that right. Put the plot before the pairing. You are here to tell a story. A story in which IMPORTANT, plotly things happen. If all you want to write about is Yuffie and Vincent hooking up with no explanations as to how or why, I would suggest writing **.

03. Keep Vincent in-character. This is hard to do. I know. I suffer with you.

The easiest way to do this is to set up a core personality for him. Is he taciturn? Angsty? Reserved? Does he genuinely enjoy being alone, or is it a "punishment" for himself, so he can't inflict harm on others? Just how self-flagellating IS he?

Vincent's personality is GREAT in a humour fic. He may not be friendly enough to be one of the crazier players, but he makes an excellent victim, and also an excellent bystander.

Anyway, once you have this core personality, to check and re-check every word and action to see if it matches the core personality. If it doesn't, rewrite. If it does, congratulations.

04. Keep Yuffie in-character.

She is MORE than a sugar-high 19 year-old. In fact, she is never seen sugar-high in canon. She is energetic, but she is also capable of being serious-- in her own little way. She has a larger vocabulary than "grossness" and "nyuk nyuk nyuk".

I am currently in the process of proving that she is capable of pulling off more than humour and romance: she's a ninja. I'm currently in the process of proving that she is capable of grief, of trauma, of dignity and determination and, eventually, romantic love.

[And more to come!]

Something that's even more irritating is the fact that we get no clue on the "why" the characters do the things they do, "Why" did Yuffie take the job of exterminating a dragon at a small village, materia she could steal, so perhaps she did it because some small part of her said that it was the right thing to do, or she was blackmailed, or the dragon hurt her in the past and she's for revenge. Either way we learn about her current situation as well as her frame of mind. "Why" did Vincent take a job on a ferry? Does he like the sea? Is he broke? Did he lose a bet with the captain? Does he have a past connection with the ferry that might've made him interested in working there?

The problem with some fics is that we a treated to a shallow picture of the characters, almost no emotion until Vincent and Yuffie is in the same room. I want every author to remind themselves that they are HUMANS! Yes, even Vincent, because his brain still works like a human's. And both of them needs motivation, thoughts, to justify their actions, maybe, okay probably, they wont have the same thoughts and motivations, but that's why it is so interesting to see them interact.

Vincent is so incredibly hard to keep in character. *sob* I can't write him at all.

It annoys me when I find Yuffie characterized as a nutso reckless tween, high on air, and acting as though she shoots herself out of a cannon every morning. This seems to happen when an author has not learned the extent of the character as well as the potential traits that the character might have. For example...

Yuffie has a lot of energy. Well, a lot of teenagers have a lot of energy. (like me!) But this doesn't mean that I'm constantly, obnoxiously hyper or airheaded. It means that I act without thinking sometimes and I'm rash sometimes. But it doesn't mean I'm crazy. Also, if an author doesn't know the character they are writing about very much, they'll focus in on the only trait they can pick out. So Yuffie has a lot of energy. Well, when that's the only trait she has, she becomes too hyper and airheaded. Yuffie's character is complicated.. it's hard to describe properly.

However! Keep in mind that we cannot improve as authors if we don't help each other through what we write in our reviews and threads like these. Reviews are for good, constructive criticism, not just "update!" or "nice!" (This is why I get so upset when I find authors that whine about someone's review that was actually just suggestions on how to improve.) I know that I'd rather have one review consisting of a short paragraph that picks the chapter apart and tells me what to look out for and improve rather than twenty reviews all saying, "update soon!" I'd be so honored that someone took the time to do that for me.

This is a great thread, Nagia. I hope other authors will share some tips as well! I also hope that I haven't brought the Yuffentine fanfiction writing community down in any way. ^^;; I can't really say because it's hard to proofread and edit yourself... bleh.

I like what has been written by the other writers. You guys pinpoint a lot of my opinions. What makes me most sad is that those who write most wrong are sometimes english or american... One would think that people knew their own language, ne? And why don't people get beta-readers?

I find that beta-readers are necessary if you can't seem to connect and organize thoughts effectively or if you have trouble with grammar and spelling. (But if you do get a beta-reader, they need to be able to correct your work, too!)

Being characters that you have to unlock and therefore not really necessary to complete the game, they aren't really included much when it comes to dialogue or characterisation. The few things that people know about the characters are what they have observed from the small amoun of dialogue they have.

Because of this, Yuffie is always portrayed as annoying.

Personally, I think that she can be loud and frustrating but she's been through enough to have gained some maturity. She's liked enough by the other characters in the party or she wouldn't be IN their party. She's probably just like an annoying younger sibling to all of them.

As for Vincent, he wouldn't dwell on Lucrecia out loud because he'd be imposing on others and also because it's not something that you'd really want to talk about. He looks like the kind who would keep his problems to himself as much as possible. He doesn't speak much but there's two reasons for that:

1) he's not a main character. Not everyone actually gets Vincent as a character so there's no point in giving him masses of plot-changing dialogue.

2) he doesn't look like someone who would speak needlessly. He would talk if it was about something of relevance to himself but not petty small-talk or stating the obvious.

I'm too tired to continue..... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Vincent is silent and keeps to himself, but is reliable and therefore a member of their team. Yuffie is overly enthusiastic and frustrating to hide what lies beneath, mayhap it is because of low self esteem or some other reason that is rather vague. She also seems to be the kind of person who is proud and unwilling to let others help her.

I really like those two characters. REALLY. XD

Any comments?

That is the WORST thing you can do, to any character.

Love comes slowly, after spending time with a person. And Lord knows both Yuffie and Vincent have been wronged in the past, so they are not going to leap into anything.

Yuffie's character is complex, but if you were to put it into a simple character block, she's the tomboy who is afraid of her emotions and afraid that others see her as weak, so she chooses to only act cheery because she has a hard time trusting people. (I know this, sadly, because I am nearly exactly like this. On the bright side, it makes her easy to write. On the bad side, Vincent is incredibly hard.) If I was willing to take all night detailing character traits, I would not be able to move tomorrow, so I'll refrain.

Vincent, in terms of generalizing, is very simple. Angsty, broken man who is slowly piecing his life back together.He is capable of humor, do not get me wrong, it's just he prefers to keep inside. He has ISSUES. And until he can sort them out, he would prefer not adding anything else to his plate.

With the basics, you can begin to grasp the characters, but ALWAYS HAVE A BETA. I live off of my betas (yes I have many of them), they make sure I stay on track. With my second Yuffentine work, The Toothpaste Anthology, I have gone over each chapter at LEAST six or seven times. (This is going to come out soon, don't worry!)And I'm still not done. Good fanfic's take months of work, but in the end it pays off.

(Oh, and if any viewing this forum is willing to beta my stories, give me a buzz. I love betas. XD)

I hope this helps somebody, good luck with writing!

Wearer of the viking hat,

Gabby the Great.

I don't have a hard time writing Vincent at all. It's writing a non-superficial Yuffie that gives me trouble.

I'm no supporter of the Yuffentine couple (yet =P) but I know EXACTLY what you mean. RokuNami from the KH fandom is my number one favorite pair but because SO many authors totally screw up their character o_o I don't even try looking for stories on them anymore; which is really sad. I still support them and will always but craptacular fics totally ruin my mood when I come on this site.

Your guide makes A LOT of sense and I applaud you for it :)

I think that, if you want to make an OC, you have to give them a believable background, you have to write down a good profile on them, give them bad traits as well as good and give them some kind of personality.

Because there are authors out there who tend to strip away any kind of personality their OC might have had, and give them this sort of Mary/Gary Sue brand.

That SUCKS. I think it's brilliant if authors can use OCs in their fic, that's fantastic, but sometimes they just don't have enough skill. And if they don't have enough skill, whatever is the point in writing a story at all?

---Before I go I must confess that yaoi has sort of torn me away from Yuffentine, but I still write het sometimes.... I just don't always post it.

Maybe, someday, I'll post a Yuffentine story, but it won't happen in a while... I have homework.

I completely hate the "I'm so in love with you even though its the second chapter and we've talked/journeyed for twenty minutes" theres got to be more of a build up than that. Granted, it can start as something that early on, but the stories that work and thrive, are the ones that always keep you wanting more, the ones that are patient about putting our tortured gun toter and hyperactive ninja together.

With that said, I don't think Vincent is really as hard to keep "in character" as it seems. Whenever I get a review questioning any of my character's character at a certain point, I can a) explain, and b) point out the proof in the work itself. No person is one dimensional, and characters shouldn't be either. Vincent is angsty: angry with himself, loathing of the things he believes he's being punished for, and as a result inflicts more mental torment on himself. A Vincent in love is different from an angry or curious Vincent, a Vincent in the throws of passion won't sound the same as a Vincent shooting through the flesh of a dragons stomach. So, as long as you stick to the absolute facts (he's self loathing, he's been in a coffin thirty years and has poor social skills) you can pull off a convincing Vincent... it helps me to change how I write for him, I refuse to use slang or contractions when writing his thoughts or anything. It may not be true in the game but it helps me keep him dark, formal, and a nice offset for his teeny-bopper love.

Furthermore, I believe in character growth and on of the biggest reasons I love this pairing is because there was so little growth in the game. There can be completely valid reasons for everything either character does if you just do little bit of looking, and a lot of imagining the authors part. I don't mind seeing a character become less of a miser and more of an outgoing character if theres good development happening in the writing, I don't mind a hyperactive, humorous, character settling down a little bit or having dark thoughts providing that there is reason for it.

My biggest beef with writers of any kind is when they do something with a character that is against the nature seen up to that point with absolutely no reason, or rational, as to why. That is what I define as out of character.

I agree completely. A character must be round to be believable - if that character is supposed to be main. Flat characters should only be used to help the plot move on. The story would be boring, otherwise.

That's quite true. They don't have much dialogue. But just by looking around, if you can find good fanfiction, or just by going through a lot of them, you can usually figure out their personalities. I, for instance, have never played the games once in my life. The closest I've gotten to them are staring at the covers for hours at Blockbuster, 'cause, well....no game system whatsoever. 'Nuff said. All I really know of Final Fantasy is what my friends tell me, and from Advent Children.

But if you look into it(Wikipedia is very helpful sometimes too, although sometimes very idiotic...) you can usually figure out their personalites pretty well. Even if you don't get it perfect, their are a lot of worse character portrayals out there.

However, after looking at all the posts on this thread together, I think it might be a good idea to say that, after really diving into the characters to find out who they are and eliminating the stereotypes put on them, it is very dependent on the story you want to write.

For example: a hard action, mildly romantic Yuffentine won't focus JUST on the romance. (Sink to the Bottom with You, the absolutely fantastic and worship-worthy story by Catalina, comes to mind.) The plot is the star, and the romance is just along for the ride to add some spice, so Yuffie may still be silly, but her rash actions and pride as a Wutai ninja will probably dominate most of her personality - she won't be a 'damsel in distress' willingly, even if forced to play the part.

Or a comedy; that pride and brash demeanor will take a back seat to unveil a more easy-going, fun-loving ninja. The more serious side of her will take a back seat as well, but still be prominent when the 'plot crisis' occurs (assuming, of course, that the comedy will have a plot, WHICH IT SHOULD to all you lazers out there like myself.)

Now let's look at good ol' Vinners in the same spotlight. In an action/adventure story, he will be completely focused on the mission. If he and Yuffie somehow end up kissing, it will not dominate his world, he won't be thinking on it so much to jeopardize the mission - the angsty, broken man we see him as takes the back seat to a quick thinking, intelligent and deadly fighter.

In a comedy, that personality melts away until it's almost gone, as does the angster, for the most part. In a funny story, focusing on the harder parts of his life is like mixing it with drama, and it never really -works-. He would, as already mentioned by a lot of other authors, be either a victim or a bystander to provide dry, witty humor that comes easily but doesn't come OUT very often.

Also, for both characters - still make sure you have a decent grasp on their character! All the above posts can help out with that the best. This is a secondary thing, because you don't want to portray the wrong personality!

Anyway, to wrap it up, what I'm trying to point out is that the character's personality shown is most definitely defined by the mood the author wants to portray. Very true, it is easy to be sucked into the black hole of only showing one side of said personality period, but by letting those other personalities shine through dimly every so often, it can be avoided. Above all, they just can't dominate the personality that works with the story.

While I'm writing this, I might as well write a personal opinion in. Vincent and Yuffie make a great couple, maybe even more so than Cloud and Tifa.

I s'pose the biggest thing I'd have to add to the rest of these... well, "guidelines," more or less (all of which has been properly praised already, so I'll eschew that), is that Vincent's character, since it's the harder of the two to figure out, will need some SERIOUS thinking.

I believe Nagia (how're you doin', by the way?) said that creating a core personality for him would be easiest. I'd expand on that and say that since his character IS so malleable, you'd have to consider just WHAT the events of the games do to him. If you're writing a Yuffentine, I'd assume that you're writing on the assumption that he's present at the major plot points of the original game (specifically the Lucrecia's Cavern and Hojo on Sister Ray scenes). Now, if you're gonna write some story that branches directly off of this point, then you'd have to analyze everything that's said and/or done and THINK about what these scenes would do to him. Does seeing Lucrecia bring some measure of peace to him? Does it bring LESS peace to him? Does NOT seeing her the second time bring peace to him? Does killing Hojo bring peace to him? Does the simple realization that "the one who should have slept was you" help him get rid of his worries? And if you go on the assumption that he's an integral part of Sephiroth's death, then how does that affect him? After all, Vincent plays his own key role in Sephiroth's birth.

There're those indicators throughout the game that tell us that yeah, he has some humor and all that nuance about this character, but the scenes with Lucrecia and Hojo are the most important to determining what he's like after the game. They are the scenes that really define just HOW much humor he has, just HOW angsty he is, and just HOW willing he is to get into another relationship.

The same thing applies very much to Yuffie, but... since her character works much more on the basis of an archetype, it's much easier to figure out what she'd be like. At least for me. Just build on that archetype; make sure you don't stick to it too much.

...but all of this is more or less a moot point; I'm assuming that most of you have already figured out your characters and such, no?

There are some very good points in this thread. Basically, you shouldn't go into anything half-cocked. Do your research before you play with the characters.

This is sorta off-topic, but I have a question. I like Yuffentine a lot, but I haven't looked for that many fics, mainly because it seems like a tricky pairing to pull off well. Besides, the best way to break into a pairing is to ask big fans of the pairing, especially sensible ones, for recommendatons.

So, can anyone here suggest some good Yuffentines for me?

Essentially, you have the right of it.

And Sana, we have an entire thread devoted to that. It's called "The Diamonds in the Rough". Try over here.

Funny how I had no idea that thing even existed...

Since we're in the Q&A mood, here's my Q:

I'm in a Yuffentine slump, in that I don't really feel like reading Yuffentines. Any suggestions to cure this? I think what it is is that I'm sort of not seeing any new takes on the couple anymore. Is that a bad thing?

Thank you very much for the link, Nagia.

The main thing you gotta do when writing Yuffie is to remember that she's sixteen, eighteen, and nineteen in the game, movie and game. She's not four, she doesn't have ADHD, and she isn't Rikku. It's hardly fair to write her as constantly happy, and Vincent then as constantly sad. The only problem with my writing her is that when I get depressed, everyone in the story gets depressed. But then, of course, I suppose that's a plus when writing Vinnie-boy, eh?

When writing Vincent, take into account everything that's happened to him. Also take into account that his arm is NOT a prosthetic, it's a gauntlet. Take into perspective your father dying, figuring out that your lover did it, then she leaves you, has a child with a squeaky bastard mad scientist, and at some point during all this you die a horrible death and then get brought back to life. Then, of course, there's the voices in your head that won't leave you alone (which are, actually, totally fanon since there's nothing saying that the demons can speak to him in his mind)(... Is there?), the crazy redhead in the metal underwear that's after the lump of Materia in your chest, the end of the world multiple times in a row... Take stuff like that into account. THEN write the PWP Lemon.

I mean, uh.... Carp. That came out wrong.

@Kaj-Nrig (I spelled that right, right?): I would suggest T. Costa if you haven't read her stuff yet, and if you have, go read it again or I'll beat you with the fandom stick. I could also self-promote here, but what's the point in that? I also say read La Editor (or re-read, or the fandom stick will get you), Hiasobi (seriously, the fandom stick knows where you live and commands that you (re)read 'Hearts'), Marilena's pretty cool, cheesynoodle's 'Infinity Everlast' is rather epic, and I'm pretty sure that it's Arabesque05 that wrote 'Prelude in G Major'...

Continuing! (The fandom stick knows where you sleep.) 'Queen of Spades' by The Walker of Dreams (I think I'mma go re-read that one...), JUPITER GREEN IS EPIC AND A COSPLAYER TO BOOT GO READ HER STUFF NAOW...

Hope I helped!

She's not four, she doesn't have ADHD, and she isn't Rikku. It's hardly fair to write her as constantly happy, and Vincent then as constantly sad.

1. You can't say FOR SURE that she doesn't have ADHD. Likewise, you can't say FOR SURE that she's not really four years old (she could be like Red...) or that she's not Rikku.

2. Actually, you can to the second two, but certainly not to the first. It's entirely possible. What little bits you see of her aren't... revelatory of her character as you'd think.

3. Then again, I haven't paid much attention to the Compilation, so I wouldn't really know.

4. Writing her as constantly happy isn't really WRONG... It's just become such a taboo thing to do that the very hint of it will get all Yuffentine-ers in a hissy fit. Personally, I wouldn't mind reading one where she doesn't have family issues, doesn't have to worry about taking the throne, doesn't have to worry about growing up, etc, etc.

When writing Vincent, take into account everything that's happened to him. Also take into account that his arm is NOT a prosthetic, it's a gauntlet.

Again, I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say that his arm is NOT a prosthetic. Call it ornery stubbornness on my part, but I still go with the "it's not a gauntlet or a prosthetic" argument on that part.

The new designs would certainly SEEM to point toward its being a gauntlet, but it's still not official, so bah to it.

'Sides, the Compilation has been more or less a pile of crap. Crisis Core may be a small redeeming factor, but it's a diamond in the rough at best.

I would suggest T. Costa if you haven't read her stuff yet

I have, and she's good. But my point isn't exactly "What stuff should I read?", it's more like "What's another way to get their relationship going?" Seems like even the most well-thought-out ideas are being recycled, by myself especially.

Oh, and I'm not a particularly big fan of cosplaying and whatnot, but I'll check out the stories nonetheless. Actually, I find myself to be really detached from the whole anime/J-gaming world. There's only one manga I'm still interested in (Blade of the Immortal), and I don't really watch any anime anymore. I want to get back to Escaflowne, though. If only I remembered where the DVDs went.

But my point isn't exactly "What stuff should I read?", it's more like "What's another way to get their relationship going?" Seems like even the most well-thought-out ideas are being recycled, by myself especially.

Well, as far as I know romance in Yuffentine is practically overdone but whoever said we must stick to romance in our fics? How about humorous fics? The dynamics between Vincent and Yuffie is ideal for that.

And there is also the aspect of friendship. Do we need to get them into a serious relationship right after game credits roll down? What's wrong with a fic where they consciously decide to remain platonic friends?

And when all else fails, do AU.

I think I got seriously off-topic. I am sorry.

Oh, and I'm not a particularly big fan of cosplaying and whatnot, but I'll check out the stories nonetheless.

She's actually a Yuffie cosplayer... But bah to it anyway.

Personally, I wouldn't mind reading one where she doesn't have family issues, doesn't have to worry about taking the throne, doesn't have to worry about growing up, etc, etc.

Actually... So would I. I've been trying to write out a whole thing on the Godo/Yuffie relations, but for some reason the idea that Yuffie has to marry someone else or has already married someone else but they're abusive is a big angst factor, and something that the Yuffentine ship seems to gravitate towards. Fathers are supposed to love their daughters, not throw them at any random guy in the street for more heirs. Not to mention Yuffie is his only daughter, so wouldn't that make Godo even more protective of her? It's making me rather sick of the pairing, and it's my OTP. Someone needs to think up a new plot idea, and fast.

Lt. Commander Richie, you have an exceedingly interesting take on the revelations made in Dirge of Cerberus. I just can't seem to recall the game ever stating or even implying that Vincent's interest in Lucrecia was requited--or that Vincent actually died.

As for Yuffie and ADHD, I'm going to have to go with Kaj-Nrig on this one. We have no conclusive proof whether she is or isn't. And if somebody is going to write her as ADHD with all the problems it actually entails, then I say more power to them.

Hmmm... I would think that being shot in the chest would kill you. Wasn't that why Lucrecia put the Chaos demon in him to begin with? To bring Vincent back to life? Hell, I dunno. I played the game for a while but then my copy got stolen so I watched subtitled cutscenes on Youtube because the english ones didn't want to load. So... Yeah. Something tells me that my view on DoC is sliiiiiiightly skewed. But what would I know? I'm just the slightly-ravenous fangirl that everyone seems to want to ** at today, so please, continue to use me as an outlet for your aggressions. :-)

First: Know your canon. There are other canon incidents involving grievous injury. Cloud was stabbed in the chest (specifically the shoulder), moved forward along the injury, and managed to survive--BEFORE Hojo got his hands on him. Tifa was essentially bisected by Sephiroth and managed to survive. Rufus had a building collapse on him and, according to Compilation canon, managed to survive. If those three injuries were survivable, why not a gunshot to the chest?

Second: Know your canon. We never see exactly where Vincent's injuries were, and with at least one medical doctor and plenty of medical supplies nearby, it's very possible that Vincent could have survived. It is never confirmed that Vincent actually died.

Third: Disagreeing with you is not ** at you. Neither is it using you as an outlet for my aggressions.

The whole Vincent survived thing... Both are possible.

I mean... We have to think about the surrounding factors, right? I do agree that Lucrecia probably didn't respond to Vincent's feelings. She didn't feel the same way (that may be because I don't like her, but meh).

Anyway - we have to think about the fact of the situation. Hojo didn't like Vincent. Hojo wanted Vincent dead. They were in the basement of the ShinRa mansion. He wasn't nearly as modified as a TURK as Cloud is, or probably even Rufus is. God knows what his father subjected Rufus to. As for Tifa... Well, she was saved by that dude... Don't remember his name. And from the looks of it, she might have not been cut so hard. It looked more like Sephiroth was trying to swat her away, sort of.

Anyway. What I was getting at. Vincent and Hojo were in the lab of the ShinRa mansion, in the basement, alone.

I rest my case :)

I'm not telling you to agree with me, Nagia. I'm simply saying to please just leave my ideas the hell alone, as I was stating what I believed. You have what you believe about the canon, and I have mine. It's as simple as that. Until some point this morning when everyone started telling me I was wrong, I was under the impression that Lucrecia was putting Chaos in Vincent so as to bring him back to life.

The hell is wrong with me that every thread I go into involving canon in some form turns into an argument?

Maybe it was:

The main thing you gotta do when writing Yuffie is to remember that she's sixteen, eighteen, and nineteen in the game, movie and game. She's not four, she doesn't have ADHD, and she isn't Rikku.

When writing Vincent, take into account everything that's happened to him. Also take into account that his arm is NOT a prosthetic, it's a gauntlet. Take into perspective your father dying, figuring out that your lover did it, then she leaves you, has a child with a squeaky bastard mad scientist, and at some point during all this you die a horrible death and then get brought back to life. Then, of course, there's the voices in your head that won't leave you alone (which are, actually, totally fanon since there's nothing saying that the demons can speak to him in his mind)(... Is there?), the crazy redhead in the metal underwear that's after the lump of Materia in your chest, the end of the world multiple times in a row... Take stuff like that into account. THEN write the PWP Lemon.

In which you didn't say that those were your takes on the given canon. You presented it as fact, y'see?

For example, the "gauntlet not prosthetic" thing isn't necessarily true.

But, of course, that's a bit of whatever. So ciao.

I presented them as fact because that's how I believed the canon to go. But since I'm obviously wrong, let's just drop it. After all, so many people will be much happier.

No need to get ornery at me. You asked, I answered, we ate a hamburger, I played a video game.

Lollipop?

Sorry, just a lot of stress. Paper due tomorrow and I put it off until the last second. I'm sorry I got pissy at everyone, and I see now that the reason every thread I go into turns into a fight is probably because of me...

Ooh, lollipop! Is it cricket-flavored?

I've been eating virtual popcorn while reading. Quite the interesting ping-pong matches going on here.

Anyhoo, I've actually been in the same sort of slump that - Kaj-Nrig, yes, yes? - seems to be in. Yuffentine just... doesn't hold that same charm for me. I put Aurikku almost completely at fault; the utter hopelessness of the situation, along with the fact that it's completely socially unacceptable has more or less drawn me in and taken me away from FFVII fandom. (I also put partial blame towards Ben 10 - when Alien Forces came out and I watched it on youtube, I squealed and squealed and squealed because I am a horrible, horrible closet shipper of Gwen/Kevin. Note to self: must rewatch gwevin moments again.)

Anyway - though this also may be slightly off topic - I think another thing to look into isn't AU, but Kingdom Hearts.

Ah, Kingdom Hearts.

Yuh-huh, I went there. :) There are so many possibilities. Vincent hasn't been sighted, heard of, even mentioned. The closest we have is Cloud's costume in the first game, but... well, we're the Yuffentiners, right? If moldly old coffins don't get in our way, then nothing can! (anticlimatic moment; I apologize. I'm more of a dork than usual right now.) I really like putting them in with their original FFVII selves, because I sort of see people being shaped by the things they've gone through. My initial thought on this was, 'they can't really be the same, right?' I enjoy molding the stories together. Still, there are just so many possibilities if you take that factor out. Here's an example: I was trying to think of something to draw a while back, and I wanted to dedicate something to this fandom because I was terribly afraid of losing all interest. After day-dreaming in... biology, I think, biology or math, I sort of had this image pop into my head of a young Yuffie sitting on a boy's shoulders, who looked suspiciously like... a chibi-fied Turk Vincent, a little boy. 'That can't be canon,' I thought, but twist it to Kingdom Hearts? They could have grown up together. I'm sorry if I sound weird, but this is such a revolutionary idea to me - I'd never thought of anything like it, so it was just like a system shocker, and I honestly have no idea why that hit me like that. Kingdom Hearts opens up possibilities.

Otherwise, I think another idea would be to play FFVII again. All those random little things can spark ideas - I think one of the things I especially love about not just FFVII, but pretty much all of the FFs I've played, are the NPCs. Some have just the most inspiring dialogue, and playing the game just to talk to them all is so much fun. (I think I'm probably being lame and am alone on this, but I didn't like Kingdom Hearts as much because I felt lonely on the screen from lack of NPCs. Yes, lonely. You may laugh now.) Maybe spark a twist that's still canon. An interesting one that isn't used much anymore is what would happen if Yuffie found Vinners first. Or what would happen if Vincent woke up - maybe the mansion caved in because of a stupid villager accidentally using an earth materia on it, or something similar? I think a lot of people are really digging into DoC and AC, farther and farther from the original. And I think by just going back to that can really inspire you.

(I wrote a story called Concrete when I was hanging onto the pairing by my own ten fingers and god's will; I was so focused on DoC that I told myself to back up, and I ended up writing something that interested me. It was about Vincent's other demons, all of whom are more or less forgotten in the sequels. I had fun writing it because it was something new to me.)

Aaand I really, really like Lt. Commander Richie's comment earlier up where she said Yuffie isn't Rikku. Oh, my gawd, I could elaborate an entire novel on that. But, I'll sort of sum it up and say thank you for pointing that out. When I got into FFX, I matched the two up and wrote them the same way, and you can't do that. I know that some people here probably don't know who Rikku is, or much about FFX, but I'll sort of put this up anyway: by juxtaposing the two, I got a much, much better hold on Yuffie. While a lot of people give both characters a constant sugar rush, I sort of figured that Rikku is a bit of a worrywart when it comes to big things. (That was my initial reaction from her in the game; odd, yes, and it definitely takes a backseat to her more dominant sunshine personality, but it's still there.) Yuffie, on the other hand, is ready to take it all on with a steady goal in mind. In the original game, I'm going to sort of infer that Yuffie cared for her comrades, even though I'm pretty sure we've all more or less come to the conclusion, seeing as she's human, a teenager, and very emotional. The facts: she kisses Cloud on the cheek (if she goes on the date with him. In this fandom, she does not. Nope. Nuh-uh, I prefer that she drags Vinners off somewhere ;P), and she more or less had a bit of a breakdown when Aeris died. Taking this into account, Yuffie is still aware that she's on her way to her almost guaranteed doom, as well as her friends, and she's worrying about who gets the materia. I don't see this as stupidity or overconfidence, but more as either a defense mechanism or having a goal so clearly in her head she's willing to risk her life on it. And... well, also a little bit of cockiness, in both her and her friends.

Just to sort of give the other side, Rikku is constantly worrying over her cousin, Yuna, who is almost ninety-nine percent certain to die. This is obviously a difference, because she already knows, but she is also trying to find a way out of it, and that worries her a lot, too. I haven't actually gotten to the part but I have seen clips; when she finds out about Auron's... status, if you will, she gets a little stressed over that, too. I see this character as a bit of an easily twittered sort of girl when she's not one hundred percent herself.

When I write the two, by the way, my style also tweaks itself a bit to fit in character. Yuffie is brash and impulsive; she gets better as the games progress, but it's still there. I don't see her as innocent at all, despite a bit of a childish disposition - she can really understand responsibility in loyalty. (Wutai, Wutai, Wutai. Wutai needs a national anthem to burst into song to.) Yuffie stays on point a little more, too, or at least remembers what she was getting across in the first place. (I have trouble with that. As does Rikku, in my humble opinion.) I also sort of find Yuffie as much less of a romantic - she hasn't known it, so I think that while she wouldn't mind flirting every so often, it would be one of the farthest things from her mind on a daily basis; she wouldn't day-dream about it. I think what I'm trying to say is that Yuffie is a strong character, something we can't overlook; she isn't naive.

I'm... rambling now. I'll stop to save you from your eyes bleeding. (This is what happens when I avoid homework like the plague at... 12:09 in the morning.) These are all just my little opinions, please feel free to agree or disagree. :) Just my interpretations on Yuffie (of the two, I find Vincent harder to write but Yuffie harder to read (such as analyze), how about that?), who I really am trying to get back into shape with - I've lost some of my traction on her and want to get a good grip again.

That was long, tedious... And rather interesting. Gwevin FTW, by the way.

You're pretty right, right there. With Kingdom Hearts there really are all sorts of possibilities, and not just Yuffentine ones. I've had an idea bouncing around my head that everyone's still out there and they just need to be found. After all, if Aerith came back then why couldn't Zack? Where'd Nanaki go? Barret's not there either, do you think Marlene's okay if she's not with him? Where the heck is Vincent, and where can I find him? Square reduxing the FF characters just wasn't fair. It's almost like they wanted to give all the Final Fantasy fans a mental meltdown trying to figure it all out. Not to mention the FF-centric fanfiction that gets posted in Kingdom Hearts both confuses and angers the solely-KH fangirls. That's always fun too.

Kingdom Hearts is all sorts of fun to look into because backstories don't really count after a certain point. Anyone could end up anywhere after the little black blobs of evil eat your home. I just wish that Vincent had appeared in the game, even if it was only opening a coffin in Halloween Town and Sora saying 'Woah! There's someone sleeping in here! Better not wake him up.'

So yes. Kingdom Hearts makes your mind wander from the possibilities. Which is undeniably fun because eventually someone's gonna find a world, and it's gonna be Ivalice. After all, what's a Square game with ship-piloting teens without a rabbit-woman with a compound bow? Certainly not FFXII, that's for sure!

[/ramble]

btw,anyone here played KH? i know it's off topic,but it's getting on my nerves!

And... you're an idiot! Congrats, buddy. As a reward, you win a month of ineptitude.

...but seriously. Why here? Why now? This thing's been dead for... a few months now. You decide to resurrect it by being stupid? How's about looking here?

Congratulations. You have placed completely useless Pit of Voles spam in my inbox. Now it'll be another month before I can work up any inspiration, and another SIX before I update anything again.

Just kidding! But seriously, why didn't you just create a new topic for the discussion of Yuffentine possibilities in KH? Most of us here would have been all over it. Little hint? Next time you have to disclaim a post with "I knowit's off topic, but," just DON'T. We'll all be the happier for it.

okay,okay. i just wish vincent were in KH...then he and yuffie could go together!

Okay, seriously, that's enough. Please go and create a new topic for your poorly-composed, thoughtless, off-topic tripe. You're wasting our time and (for some of us) our inbox space.

FUUUCK YOOOUUUU Nagia! He can say whatever he wants!!! Rawr rawr rawr Hulk Smash!

I do it all for you, babe. :P

Actually, just a quick something to talk about, if you feel so inclined: What're the thoughts on Vincent and Shelke? There aren't a lot of forums out there dealing with those two, for obvious reasons, but still, I think it'd be an interesting pairing.

If Shelke got more than two minutes of characterization, I mean.

That's like, the question you totally never should have asked!

I think that Shelke is unlikely to live as long as Vincent, and may even age (her body needs Mako to survive, remember). However, if she does manage it, I see Shelke and Vincent not really forming a RELATIONSHIP (a minor friendship? Sure thing. An understanding? Absolutely. But not an actual complete relationship with give and take) until many, many years down the road. When they're basically the only ones left.

I'm not really sure that Shelke is what Vincent needs. How much of her fascination with him comes from having Lucrecia's memories in her head? And hell, how much of his fascination with HER comes from that very same reason? If they got involved as anything other than a very warped familial dynamic, I think they'd wind up reenacting that tragic love story. And, more to the point, I think they'd wind up making very similar mistakes. Shelke hasn't lived enough yet to see exactly what the mistakes were (hell, Lucrecia herself hadn't lived enough yet to make the choices that could have given her a happy ending). And, honestly, I think it'd be very wrong of Vincent to enter a relationship with her if he wasn't sure which part of her he was attracted to: the "real" Shelke, the girl who never saw sunlight... or the memories of his lost love?

Does that mean he wouldn't? Hell no. But it does mean that it probably wouldn't be a healthy relationship, and it's not one I'd really like to explore. I have enough on my plate with Burnt Offerings and that fic I was contemplating (the one I showed you). And I'm not likely to read anything about it, either. Shelke was never really made likable for me.

well,if you hate me so much then you can just erase me from this world. plus. i'm a girl.

...yeah, we hate you... yes... that's exactly it.

You just post stupid stuff, that's all. No real hatred behind it. The stuff that comes out of your e-mouth is just... stupid.

Not like I'm trying to offend you. I'm just stating a fact.

Shelke hasn't lived enough yet to see exactly what the mistakes were .... And, honestly, I think it'd be very wrong of Vincent to enter a relationship with her if he wasn't sure which part of her he was attracted to: the "real" Shelke, the girl who never saw sunlight... or the memories of his lost love?

Truthfully, I figure that the ONLY reason he was drawn to her at all was because she was like Lucrecia. His concern over her life seems like it'd just be a natural reaction from him, so I don't see any real attraction to "the 'real' Shelke" in there at all. Which leaves the Lucrecia clone, and I'd be very ** if SE made him hook up with her on THAT basis.

...then again, if that happened, it'd probably end in tragedy, like you said, and that'd make him even more of an emo heartthrob, so... I dunno. It might be a good thing after all...?

I personally wouldn't want to explore their relationship, either, simply because, like you, I didn't enjoy DoC's story... at all... and even less Shelke's story, which was more or less abruptly ended when Shalua died. (And my god, were they really trying to go for sympathy there? Because all I felt was, "Oh, she died. Shucks.")

That said, though, I wouldn't mind pulling some weird, creepy lil' Lolita story out of my **. I could totally see the traumatized gunslinger getting messed up enough to have the hots for a lil' girl with the memories of his dead love interest.

I actually did feel some sympathy when Shalua died... but it was all for Yuffie and Reeve. The people whom Shalua had actually touched. Not the ungrateful little brat who didn't even care. I didn't feel much sympathy for Vincent--he just turned around and made her another sacrifice at the altar of his great failures--but I did understand that he was in pain, if for all the wrong reasons.

I honestly think it would take Vincent a long, long while to feel anything strong enough to cause action or even conflict. He's big into denial, so he'd probably just deny-deny-deny for like twenty years. Until he and Shelke were the only ones left (assuming she lived that long). Or until Shelke or somebody else confronted him.

It could be fascinating to explore their relationship from completely outside. As in, their relationship as seen from outside, by various members of AVALANCHE. But the varying degrees of disapproval and trainwreck syndrome would be the only things fascinating about that dynamic, IMO. I'd rather see Vince interacting with Yuffie (who has the admitted advantage of being hilarious).

It did. After Lucrecia saved him and put him in the pod, prior to putting Chaos/the protomateria inside him, she comments, "No. It's still not enough. I have to hurry or the tissue will continue to decay." Just wanted to point that out. Carry on.

I find it really hard to get Vincent right, because the only in-depth character development we get for him is from Dirge. Square doesn't really get into anyone other then Cloud, Tifa, Zack, and Aerith for the most part. When I try to write either of them, my writing seems flat. If any of you have any tips for me, they would be greatly appreciated. I mean, I have the plot down, but Vincent is just plain hard to get in-character...

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