Some Yuffentine lovers say that they compliment each other well. Yes I can see the opposites attract, but you need a little bit more than that. And there has to be something there from the beginning. Nothing in the game supports this pairing. I've played the game several times and so far I have not seen anything to indicate that Vincent so much as tolerated her.

Now I have heard the off screen thing, where they love each other like crazy, but these are fictional characters. There is no off screen. When you turn off your Playstation, they cease to exist. And when they're not in your party, they're just icons to be called upon when you want to switch characters.

I can't say much on personality. To me, this is a moot point. I can say that Yuffie was a bit annoying and extremely immature but someone else could argue that she was the best character ever. It's all opinion really and everyone's entitled to it.

The fics out there...well there have been quite a few that have been written terribly. Now I have read good ones. I can't name them at the moment, but they are out there. It seems to me that the only reasoning behind this pairing is whimsical fantasy and not based on any kind of reasoning.

So while I can tolerate almost all pairings, this one itches at my brain in the worst possible way.

The personality match is what I just don't see. Yuffie's terribly immature and sneaky, though she does get marginally better in the course of the game. Vincent's frankly too busy moping and he makes it quite clear that he really doesn't like Yuffie much. I've read a few Yuffentines I actually could see happening, but these were set long after the game, when Yuffie's grown up some more and Vincent isn't so in love with being depressed. If Vincent's already in the party when you encounter Yuffie, he mentions something about her looking familiar. If that's the case, it lends credence to the theory that Vincent's from Wutai (which as far as I can tell, is almost completely fanon, correct me if I'm wrong). The possibility that he might be her uncle or something makes things a little too creepy for me.

Now all this talk has given me half an idea for a Yuffentine humor fic. Plotbunnies...

This is not to say that I'm closed-minded to the pairing, it just has to be done extremely well. And there are too few and far between of those flying around. Even if they are done decently, there's almost always a sacrifice on the part of Vincent's character. In order to make the pairing plausible some change is always made to his character early on in the story and that to me is a cop out. Stick to your guns, people, the world will appreciate you for it.

vincent was her uncle there could be inbreeding the family line(shudders at attempted joke)but wouldnt he be able to tell after seeing godo as he is about vincent mental age. if you see their personAlity as a problem i can understand but she has to eventually mature otherwise shell turn innto michael jackson(again shudders at attemped joke)

but thats jus my 2 cents

Now that I think about it, Aeris would compliment him better. After all, she's a natural healer with a sound head on her shoulders, so she should be able to convince him to abandon his brooding. I haven't read any fics with this pairing, though... and there's the problem with Aeris being dead and all. .

I'm not saying this because I've never used her in the game. In fact, the first time I played, she was always in my party. Weak in the physical, but excellent healer, who are always handy in a fight. I liked Aeris in the beginning. At first I thought her flirty nature was just one of her quirks, annoying but a bit likable. But after playing the game with her for quite a while, it just grated.

And possibly worse than being a pedophile is being a necrophiliac. But hey whatever floats people's boats. I can remember seeing one fic, called My Green-eyed Angel or something like that, that had Vincent x Aeris. But that didn't leave a good impression on me.

but thas jus my 2 cents

Edited for bashing content. I prefer that you clearly explain why Cloud bugged you without using curse words.

Well at least it still has Vincent in it. And hopefully it won't be too painfully obvious of a Yuffentine.

I don't think you guys have to worry about Yuffentine in DOC. It would be great if they had some friendly interaction (for ANY fan, not just Yuffentine supporters), but I can't see SE giving Vincent any canon love interest (other than his-hopefully-past with Lucrecia). I just hope he gets some sort of resolution to the Lucrecia thing, and that he starts to express SOME interest in getting over his 'sins'. It's not healthy for his character to stay static forever.

I like the thought that the characters that had little focus in the original game are getting the spotlight in DoC. Both Yuffie and Vincent were optional characters, and therefore had very little character development or interaction with any character other than Cloud, Tifa or Cid (whoever was the playable character at the time). And Reeve was Cait Sith for the original game and we only had glimpses of the REAL Reeve. I am looking forward to Vincent, Yuffie and Reeve taking the spotlight, especially after Cloud and Tifa got plenty of focus in AC (and Last order).

How do you know it doesn't make sense? Have you played Dirge of Cerberus? Do you know the story of said game? I don't see why people are getting pissed off by the fact that Vincent and Yuffie are taking center stage in DoC. They're as much FFVII characters as Cloud, Tifa and Aeris, so why shouldn't we be happy at the chance to get to know them a little better?

Also, in response to the person who was talking about Yuffentine in DoC, nobody ever said that this pairing would occur in the game. I have heard rumours, yes, but these rumours have never been confirmed. Ever. Everyone's too busy jumping to conclusions, and it's getting a bit annoying.

There are a few reasons why I think DoC is going to disappoint me.

1. Not a big fan of shooting games. But given that it's made by Square and it's part RPG, I'll get over it.

2. Not a big fan of Yuffie. However as long as she doesn't have that much of a large role in the game (I'm under the impression that this game is mostly about Vincent. Though I've been wrong before and it didn't kill me.) once again I'll get over it.

3. If Square doesn't release it soon, I'm going to burst.

But now I'm getting off topic. You either dislike or like this pairing. Me, well I've given my replies and I'm done with it. Someday someone's going to convince me otherwise. Nagia came close (see Yuffentine forum) and I'm quite impressed by the answer. However until then I'm going to stoically stick with my opinion of Yuffie x Vincent.

Also:

Will people PLEASE stopping harping on age and Materia? Vincent's age

1. Shouldn't much matter as he's immortal

2. Is still vastly different from any of the other major characters'

And the materia issue... I'm just so tired of it. I've said it once, I'll probably say it a thousand times: the major issue with stealing people's Materia is that it is perhaps two steps away from murder, not that Materia is actually valuable.

...breathe...calm...think happy thoughts...

Now...I'm going to say a few things. The only people that have harped on the age thing and Materia thing was me. Ardwynna pointed out personality problems and someone else pointed out maturity. Nando mentioned the age differences yes, but as he's said done well and put further past the timeline of the game, it'd make some sort of sense. I'm not even going to begin to wonder what b0y said.

I've read your journal...interesting. But I'm going to harp on this. You're interpreting the characters, not basing it on fact. And as I remember you said something about Vincent NEEDING someone honest in his life in your essay, gravy trains. How fascinating to note you contradict yourself when you admit that Yuffie is a liar in your journal. So which is it? I'm confused. Is it that Yuffie is honest about being a liar or she lies so well, it's almost truth?

I've come to understand the age difference...however in my mind it's still pedophilia. You don't agree? I'm quite happy for you. The materia comments I made? This is what I latched onto concerning my dislike of Yuffentines. He finds her act despicable. "Unforgivable" is what you've quoted in your essay. And once again, I'll reiterate, not once has he tolerated her in game.

One more thing, you think you're tired of hearing about this? Ask me how I feel when I read every fic that makes Vincent some kind of angsty, depressed, self-loathing person. That's getting old and boring.

There. I'm done. No more on this topic from me.

Excuse me? Contradicted myself HOW, exactly? Methinks you SKIMMED, Bleu, because I never once said "Yuffie is a liar."

I DID say:

Yuffie was a thief and a liar, and an almost-traitor to boot.

(That 'was' is very important.)

She's stolen, she's lied, she's manipulated, she's betrayed.

(She's: contraction of she + has. This sentence COULD read 'she has stolen, she has lied, she has betrayed', if I had a stick up my butt.)

I never once talked about Yuffie STILL BEING a liar.

Does that clear anything up?

Okay look.

I'm going to be nice and not delete your replies. Do NOT come in here and ask for anything, unless you have some input as to why you dislike / hate the pairings listed.

This is your first and only warning.

Edit: Also I did check your profile. Let me say one thing, for a person who understands racism and skepticism, you come off as quite the opposite. And being that I'm in such a wonderful mood, I'm going to forgo the warning and just skip straight to blocking you. Why? Because I'm highly unreasonable and downright pissy today.

Also--- she shows up to help the team in Advent Children. She has apparently given her Materia to Cloud ("Who's been using my Materia?!" "The bad guys, of course!" "Yaaaaa RAWR!!!").

Yuffie seems to have her feet planted firmly on the Good side of the fence.

There is this other girl in the DoC name: Shelke, she has the potential to be the "love" interest in DoC *shurgs* who knows. And if you're wondering about the other FFVII characters being in DoC word is just in, in this scan that they are! MUAH AH AHA HA HA H AHA H

http://dcff7.info/fami1222_2.jpg

I can say with pride, however, that she will not be a love interest unless Square wants to break their own canon, because she never loved Vincent.

Which makes me like her even less.

Shelke, is she the WRO Scientist who apparently had something done to her left eye? And don't forget, if Shelke is a possible love-innterest that there's a weird 'bought my lingerie from a gun magazine'-looking lady named Rosso.

Both of them are hopelessly weird and do not ride cute little yellow motorscooters. Or tell Vincent this in THE FIRST DC TRAILER EVER RELEASED: "While scouting Niblheim, I found you lying like a corpse in the Shin-Ra Mansion. I got so worried, and that's why I helped you."

The closest we have would be Rosso, saying, "Three years ago, what do you think we did when we gained our freedom...? We killed each other!! By bathing in the blood of several thousand SOLDIERs, I survived. Because of that, I thought... that I could kill all the people in the world... You too can understand this, can't you?"

(Hint: Vincent can't.)

...but I'm also a Yuffentine fan, so... um, what should I say?

I s'pose it's not really the best of choices to defend a pairing in a thread that's supposed to be dedicated to "what pairings do you hate", but... well, Bluewyn, hope you'll excuse this. ^_~

The age difference - yes, I know there've only been a few people in here that've openly hated the couple for this reason, but I still have to defend it... somewhat. First off, I've got to ask some questions -

1. What age difference would be "acceptable", would you say? (Remember, all opinion)

2. If one of the partners is, let's say, 14-16 (teens, I s'pose), what would you consider to be a suitable age difference? (Kinda like the last one, except w/ these constraints)

3. If both partners are teens, what would you say the suitable age difference to be?

4. If one partner was... [insert legal adult age here], at what age would you make the cut for "young enough to date so-and-so"?

So basically, all I want is like an age gap for each question, taking into consideration the parameters.

...and onto the next few issues, which appear to be:

Attitude/Emotional Status/Psyche/yadda yadda

Bleuwyn -

I've played the game several times and so far I have not seen anything to indicate that Vincent so much as tolerated her.

Of course not. But you also said

And there has to be something there from the beginning.

What would you consider to be "something"? If it's like "a form of friendship, however basic it may be at first", then it really ISN'T the "something" that's "there from the beginning." (Sound confusing? Yes, I am, too.) The "something from the beginning" always starts out as... well, as preconceived notions. Stereotypes, however unconscious they may be. Even THAT'S not the "beginning", but it's the best starting point you can have without going back to the VERY beginning (ie the first moments of life).

...so I'd like you to answer another question:

What's your definition of "something there from the beginning"?

And then about Vincent not tolerating her - hell, if that's the case, then he never should've tolerated Cait Sith, aka Reeve. After all, Reeve ALSO stole from them, and what he stole was of MUCH more importance than what Yuffie took. (The Keystone versus Materia...) But why did he eventually tolerate him? Oh, well, it was because Reeve APOLOGIZED. Sincerely.

If I'm not mistaken, Yuffie does the exact same thing at the end of the Wutai sidequest, no? So, Vincent DOES tolerate her.

Now I have heard the off screen thing, where they love each other like crazy, but these are fictional characters. There is no off screen. When you turn off your Playstation, they cease to exist. And when they're not in your party, they're just icons to be called upon when you want to switch characters.

People are free to their opinions, but yes, I DO think it's kinda... pointless to try and make them a couple within the timeframe of the game. Sure, it'll work out if they know how to do it right (add the fact that they're not present in any of the FMVs, and it becomes more workable), but yeah, I agree with you 'bout that. Nuthin' interesting to say...

Even if they are done decently, there's almost always a sacrifice on the part of Vincent's character. In order to make the pairing plausible some change is always made to his character early on in the story

Well, then you've probably just read the wrong fics. Or your interpetations of him simply aren't the same as the authors'.

Nando the RPS King -

But even when she's written as a adult, he's still as old as or older than her dad, which can easily get creepy.

Yes, it can. Of course, that's whether you're counting those thirty years as "real" thirty years of life or not.

...and I was gonna say something else to argue the age point, but I forgot it, so, um... moving on, I guess.

Wait, Yuffie's going to be a main Dirge of Cerebus character now? Now, I'm all for giving under-developed characters their time in the spotlight, but I really hope this doesn't mean there's going to be cononical support for Yuffentine in DoC.

Don't count on it supporting Yuffentine. At least not openly. SE has a habit of JUST hinting at things, however minor it is. Like Aurikku. One of the songs sung by Rikku's VA hinted at Aurikku (or so some claim; I personally don't really think so), and it was pulled from the US version because of that.

Being that I'm that laziest pirate ever, I still havent seen AC yet, but it sounds like she's matured a bit.

Not to spoil it for you or anything, but just... don't expect much.

Ardwynna Morrigu (am I gonna go through EVERYBODY's arguments? ...maybe) -

I've read a few Yuffentines I actually could see happening, but these were set long after the game, when Yuffie's grown up some more and Vincent isn't so in love with being depressed. If Vincent's already in the party when you encounter Yuffie, he mentions something about her looking familiar. If that's the case, it lends credence to the theory that Vincent's from Wutai (which as far as I can tell, is almost completely fanon, correct me if I'm wrong). The possibility that he might be her uncle or something makes things a little too creepy for me.

...well, then I s'pose I'd suggest you read Sunshine in Winter. Or Sink to the Bottom With You. Not the best way to try and convince somebody, and I don't usually try to do so this way, but... oh well.

And the theory that Vincent's from Wutai IS just fanon. For now. That Ultimania book might prove it to be right. But for now, it's just fanon. I personally think it might be that he had some sort of role in the war between Shinra and Wutai when he was a Turk. That's assuming that the war occured thirty years or more ago, of course. So I think he might think she looks like her mom or dad.

Moving right along...

b0y1ndah00d -

but um they should wait atleast until shes 18 if there gonna writ a fic bout them un they want a wierd pedophile relationship

Would 16 be considered pedophilia? Or is it somewhere more around the pre-teen ages? ...if anybody knows, I'd like to hear from 'em.

Aqua Phoenix1 -

Vincent is a withdrawn, depressed guy who keeps beating himself up over his past failures. He embraces his misery. With her dishonest nature, tendancy to provoke/irritate everyone around her and immature attitude, Yuffie wouldn't take the time to understand Vincent. Rather, she'd most likely just enjoy teasing him or asking for his materia.

Sure, but she might also show some slight understanding. With the amount of characterization the two've had, it's hard to anticipate what they'd do. That's why there've been so many different takes on the two characters.

Nagia -

Just the whole rant in general. Calm down, it's not like people are attacking you. Besides, most of the people that post here probably have no clue who you are and/or have not read a single argument you've made for Yuffentine. So just try again to explain calmly. Frustrating as it may seem to you to have to explain it again, think about how frustrated the opposition is to keep hearing the same arguments from US all the time.

...and then I scrolled down to the general stuff 'bout the various ladies.

Shelke = young DGS girl that uses those two lightsaber-esque things. Her eyes glow, too...

Rosso = red-dressed chick with claws and "fur coming out of her ass", as somebody put it... the one that says "It's the beginning of the end."

Shalau = scientist lady with one eye shut all the time.

Hope that helps...?

EDIT: Sorry it's so long. ^_^

To me, Yuffentines don't make sense. Age, personality, and I honestly don't appreciate her character as much as Vincent. It's a flimsy excuse, but there have been flimsier excuses from people who do actually like this pairing.

If they were closer to the same age (regardless of the time in his coffin) I'd understand. It's just that, as a friend of mine had said once, people who are in their late twenties or early thirties don't normally fall in love with teenagers. It also has to do something with my own personal experiences, which I'm not going to get into.

Personality wise. Well I do have a different vision of him than most people. And the type of person I see him as would not think of her that way. He's not angsty, he's quiet. But he knows when to speak and when not to. He's also cocky and somewhat arrogant. I know it's not evident in the game, but this is how I see him. I relate to him and perhaps see a lot of myself in his character. So for me, it's easy to envision him as a little like me. And since I don't like her that much...well you get the picture.

Yuffie was aggravating and annoying to me. When I played the game for the first time, I chalked it up to her youthful attitude. She's sixteen, so she's going to be a little reckless and spunky. But after playing the game a few more times, she just got on my nerves. I suppose it was when I got older, that she started to annoy me. So I don't have a true appreciation for her character as I would have if I was her age myself.

Yes, you're right about her apologizing. But my point is there's nothing in the game to indicate that he liked her in any romantic setting. Stories involving further past the timeline, yes fine, I'll grant you that.

As far as reading the wrong stories, maybe you're right on that too. But I've only read some that were of decent quality. Sometimes it sickens me to read a horribly written Yuffentine and then read the reviewers' glowing comments after. Do people not know that grammar and spelling count anymore? I mean I know some have barely gotten out of high school, but hey make some effort at least. While grammar and spelling doesn't count toward a good storyline, it's just plain helpful to be able to understand what it is you're reading. And you might say, "Hey stop reading them, if you don't like the pairing." I like to read and generally I'm curious as to how an author would put their spin onto this pairing.

Which leads me to Vincent's character portrayal again. While my perception of him is different, I still would think that the general consensus of his person would never even think of her that way...ever. And while I don't like Yuffie, I would think that she deserves someone that can appreciate her energetic personality. And of course some will argue, given time he would. Well that's opinion too.

Almost forgot. Something from the beginning, huh? Okay, regardless of the opposites attract thing, there's still has to be some attraction evident. My husband and I are complete opposites, but we both thought of each other as cute or adorable or whatever goofy thing we thought of in our first meeting. Of course we could argue countlessly on how we don't exactly know what the characters are thinking. But from what I can see and understand in the game, nothing he did or said indicated that he liked her. Then I've had people say, "Oh it's there, you just don't see it." You're right, so please point it out to me. My whole thing is that I can't latch onto something I can't see. Vincent told Tifa he was glad she was alright. It's easy to manipulate that and make it seem deeper than it really is. Does that make sense?

And I've argued with a few people who do like Yuffentines who've never even considered taking the game into account and that kind of ticks me off. They just liked to see these two together. Well I'd like to see Vincent jump out of the screen and ask me to marry him, but that's not going to happen either. And it's even more upsetting when people don't bother to really listen to you. Hey, I might not agree with you, but at least I'm giving you the opportunity to argue your point. Give me the same courtesy and we'll get along.

The thing about the slight indication of Yuffentine in DoC disturbs me and yes, it's just speculation right now. But I was disappointed nonetheless. Because I was under the impression this was Vincent's game and for Square to put her in there, just twitched a little nerve in me and I knew I wouldn't like the influx of Yuffentine stories. People read a lot into even the littlest things and for some it's easier to think in terms of black and white. "Yuffie's in the game...so therefore Vincent and her must have had a relationship or will." But being that I'm a huge fan of Square, I'm going to get over it and enjoy the game regardless. Unless the gameplay sucks...but that's an entirely different argument altogether. PS: I was also a little unnerved to see Barrett and Tifa might be in the game too. Damnit Square!

And please do not be afraid to debate your liking of this pairing. I just don't want people to come in here and proclaim that they are right. You're not and neither am I. I opened this forum in the hopes of people understanding each other better. If you like a pairing and see it listed here, don't hesitate to give your opinion on the matter. But you can't expect people to instantly change their mind. If anything, I want people to come away from this place and say, "Yeah they're still crazy, but at least what they said made some sort of sense" or "I don't like [insert disliked / pairing], but I never thought of it that way."

Most people think that since I don't like this pairing, I won't be able to get along with people who do. Well they're wrong. I do have one friend who does and we get along great. We just don't talk about it, because that just leads to name calling ;P

Edit: Jeez, I'm getting long-winded too.

...huh, you were saying something? ^_^

Almost forgot. Something from the beginning, huh? Okay, regardless of the opposites attract thing, there's still has to be some attraction evident. My husband and I are complete opposites, but we both thought of each other as cute or adorable or whatever goofy thing we thought of in our first meeting. Of course we could argue countlessly on how we don't exactly know what the characters are thinking. But from what I can see and understand in the game, nothing he did or said indicated that he liked her. Then I've had people say, "Oh it's there, you just don't see it." You're right, so please point it out to me. My whole thing is that I can't latch onto something I can't see. Vincent told Tifa he was glad she was alright. It's easy to manipulate that and make it seem deeper than it really is. Does that make sense?

1) Something from the beginning, in animes and/or games, usually tends to be a slightly deranged form of hatred. And, as the characters are forced together for extended periods of time, it develops into a hatred+like relationship, which eventually develops into a hatred+like-(.5)(hatred) relationship, which also develops into a hatred+like-hatred=like relationship, and... yeah, you know where I'm going. I'm guessing this is where most Yuffentine fans get their basis. Since so many games are like anime anyway, it makes perfect sense for them to use this formula. I dunno, maybe.

2) Those that say "it's there, you just don't see it"... well, quite frankly, they're idiots. ^_^

3) Yes, it makes sense.

But I've only read some that were of decent quality. Sometimes it sickens me to read a horribly written Yuffentine and then read the reviewers' glowing comments after.

Oh, you poor, poor soul. How I feel for you. Don't worry, though; it happens to all of us. What else do you expect from a site in which over 90% of the population are newbs or are under the age of twelve? (Exaggerated statistic, but hey, it might just be true.)

To start off plain and simply, I hate Yuffentines. This is just my opinion and preference, though. Personally, the equation of Vincent+Yuffie=love does not work. Vincent is a quiet guy who appreciates sincerity and serenity. (I know that he was a Turk, so the whole serenity thing may not make sense, but hold on.) After what I shall dub "that Lucrecia fiasco", he feels guilty, remorseful and vengeful. After he gets some closure and repents for his so-called 'sins' by killing Hojo and, soon after, Sephiroth, I'm sure that he wouldn't wish to be an assassin again or frankly, have any profession regarding taking lives.

Now Yuffie is the COMPLETE opposite of Vincent. She is still a teenager, so her views on life would be different of those of a man who's suffered in the past. Although I see much of her annoying personality in my own friends, I don't like her. She has a very lively personality, which would be good if she wasn't...

1) a liar

2) klepto (someone who has a compulsion to steal)

3) selfish

Her immaturity is what would bring her to be this way. I know, since I, too, am very young, that people like this are driven to lie and to steal, which are both acts of selfishness. Although lying could be good, Yuffie mostly lies for all the wrong reasons. (Okay, she steals materia to bring back the former glory of Wutai, but stealing is hardly mature and is probably the last thing you should think of in that scenario.)

Being that she is so young, like me, she does not know the true hardships of life and clearly wouldn't understand the pain that Vincent went through. With time she would grow and would eventually understand, but most Yuffentines are set when Yuffie is still a teenager. Speaking of age, it may be the time to mention the infamous age gap. If the official ages mean anything, Vincent is 11 years older than Yuffie (excluding the thirty years of 'sleep'). Compared to Tifa, he's only seven years older and to Aeris, five. Now, there's the argument that Vincent is immortal, so age wouldn't matter, right? Well, if you were a man in your late twenties, nearing your thirties, who has been through unrequited love and even watched the woman you love die in the hands of an insane monster, would you even consider dating an immature sixteen year old? Answer honestly, please.

Although I see much of her annoying personality in my own friends, I don't like her.

I know SOMEONE will find this scentence and use it against me, so I will explain. This does not, in any way, mean that I underappreciate my friends. I just realise that many of my friends are average teens from the suburbs whose idea of hardship would be not being allowed to go to that awesome rock concert on Thursday. I know I am too, but I just think a lot deeper into these different subjects and I know how silly our juvenility is. But these things are hardly the point. The point is that when I think of Vincent's life experiences and personality and then compare them to those of a mere teenager, there's that HUGE difference. Opposites DO attract, I know, but that argument is hardly useable when you take to consideration Vincent's tolerance of Yuffie.

Well, my short essay about Yuffentines is over. I hope I made sense and if not, then I'll blame my adolescence and edit it.

Now that you mention it, I'm surprised that no one's brought up what I guess you could call the Highlander dilemma. That is, if Vincent's immortal, he wouldn't want to get involved with someone who wasn't also immortal. Because watching someone you love grow old and die while you stay the same age isn't exactly what you could call a fun time. So, the immortality angle actually works against Yuffentine supporters.

I understand that and I've watched many an anime with that formula. However, you can see the relationship build in an anime compared to Vincent and Yuffie. You can see how the couple react to each other and get a better understanding as to why, two people who normally hate each other, can fall in love. As far as Vincent and Yuffie goes, you don't.

Erm...do you think the horse is dead yet?

Now, bad to me is all relative. Vincent went through some weird, psychotic, crazy-inducing experiences, but there's really no way we can use that as a comparison to Yuffie's life, because she went through her own personal weird, psychotic, crazy-inducing experiences. Sure, you might not consider the fall of a proud nation to be on par with, say, butchering people for a living, but you didn't take into account the fact that she's ONLY a teen. By experience, I'm sorta kinda maybe guessing that traumatic experiences have a much more profound impact on people the younger they are.

So, how does this lead into my argument? Well, work with the assumption that Yuffie's got a bad history. Which she does. Which everybody in the FFVII world does. Anyway, to me, it's this connection that the two of them have (the same negative life experience) that makes it possible to get together.

...all of which came out wrong, but I'm under time constraints, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Nando -

So, the immortality angle actually works against Yuffentine supporters.

No, it doesn't. Just like how it doesn't matter whether Vincent's older than Yuffie, it also doesn't matter whether she's older than him. Or whether any of the others are older than him.

And who knows, he might actually be able to come to terms with the fact that he'll outlive everybody and be ultimately lonely for the rest of his life.

Bleuwyn (cool name, by the way) -

You can see how the couple react to each other and get a better understanding as to why, two people who normally hate each other, can fall in love. As far as Vincent and Yuffie goes, you don't.

Not in the game, no. But more often than not the stories with either blatant Yuffentine or implied Yuffentine occur after the game. Since they're optional characters, you don't really expect a lot of interaction with the other characters from them, and much less with each other. Which is partly the reason why people like writing about them so much. Because you don't see how they react to each other (except in situations of deep betrayal, like the Wutai sidequest), you have a lot of freedom, when writing fics, about how they WILL react to each other.

...am I making any sense at all?

Erm...do you think the horse is dead yet?

Never!

Okay, so the once-proud nation of Wutai fell. I'm sure that Yuffie would be pretty desperate and, in a way, traumatized. But let's take her understanding of trauma and compare it to that of, let's say, Tifa and Aeris.

Tifa's trauma and thirst for revenge originated with the whole Nibelheim incident. Sephiroth, being the crazed psychopath that he is, burned her town to ashes, slayed her father and, after she attempted to kill him herself, slashed her chest open, nearly killing her in the process. She faced DEATH, for Pete's sake and she grew up without a mother figure! Now who do you think would understand trauma better? Tifa or Yuffie?

Aeris was born from Gast and Ifalna, as you all should know. He initially was meant to expirament on Ifalna because she was a Cetra, but he ended up falling in love with her and she, too, with him. So they go to Icicle Inn and bear Aeris. Then, just as she's a baby, her family's attacked by the Shin-Ra soldiers, killing Gast in the process, and they were brought back to Hojo, who did further expiraments on Ifalna. Then, when Aeris was a little child, Ifalna was able to excape with her, but she died in the process, leaving Aeris with Elmrya. Now, I know that Aeris might not have been old enough to understand all of that, but a child could still recognise danger when it's so blatantly obvious (this is Hojo and his freaky expiraments we're talking about!). I'm sure she must have been pretty traumatized, no matter how young she was.

Okay, so Aeris is dead, if we don't bring her back to life somehow and we stick to the FFVII storyline. That still leaves Tifa, though. Who do you think would understand Vincent's pain better?

She's still a teenager and reacts to things as any teenager would. I have also suffered (but not in the same way) from a tragic past, but that didn't keep me from doing silly teenager things when I was her age. As young as she is, her true self still has many more life experiences to go through before it can finally be shaped into the way she will be. Okay, now I'm confusing myself.

At any rate, we can also argue that Tifa is young as well. She's just out of her teen years, so the same argument for Yuffie can be said for Tifa. Ah crap, I lost my point. Anyway, hope that made sense...if not, I'm drunk. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

Who would understand him better really doesn't matter. Since the scenario hasn't presented itself yet (as in hasn't been shown in-game, in-movie, or in-promo), it's all up to the author to decide.

Even still, I don't necessarily think Tifa'd be able to "understand" Vincent better. I don't think it's really possible for ANYBODY to POSSIBLY understand Vincent. If anything, she'd be able to empathize with him much more than Yuffie.

On the other hand, Yuffie would be able to distract him from his pain, however temporarily. As time goes on, it'd be not such a far stretch to assume that she'd also be able to help him, as she sees the sides that are different from his usual quiet self.

...not to harp on VinTi, of course.

She's still young and has quite a lot of growing up to do. You can say that considering what she's been through, she's mature enough to handle anything. Not necessarily.

Of course not. I hate to bring up the oft-used argument, but it's this lack of maturity that makes her such a good match for Vincent, who has too much maturity. (Somebody in some other forum somewhere also mentioned something about him being immature in some other ways, but that was long ago and I forgot all about it.) Their interaction would teach her to become more mature, and him to be not so serious and mature. It's an old argument, and it's one that all Yuffentine-ers overuse, but I can't really say anything else.

...if not, I'm drunk. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

...can I be drunk, too? That'd be fun.

Either that, or they'd drive each other nuts and have a messy break-up. Hard to tell which is more likely.

...if not, I'm drunk. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

...can I be drunk, too? That'd be fun.

Now there's a fun idea. Ah, time for my favorite muse... -pours self a glass of Knob Creek-

Edited due to lack of support of nested quotes on this site. Meh.

Edit: Right...something about the topic. Let me put down my drink and say something. At least I know that Tifa and Yuffie are not old enough to drink. So ha! *hiccup*

But I'm fairly sure the drinking age's lower in Japan. Either 19 or 20, can't remember which. Otherwise it wouldn't have made much sense to make a character that's a bartender and too young to legaly handle alcohol. Yuffie's still out of luck, though.

1. It's time for a vocabulary lesson!

A. Pedophilia.

Pedophilia is sexual attraction to prepubescent humans. No breast-buds, no pubic hairs, no armpit hairs--- if it sprouts during puberty, a pedophile finds it *unattractive*.

The closer fit, for Yuffentine, would be 'teleophilia', which is for one person to be sexually attracted to another person who is significantly older than they are. This usually means 'liking the elderly a bit more than most people'.

Please don't go throwing the word 'pedophile' around so casually.

B. Kleptomania.

Kleptomania is a compulsion to steal. It is a COMPULSION, which is NOT NOT NOT a conscious decision.

It is a psychological condition. It's pathological: kleptomaniacs literally *cannot stop themselves* from stealing, and often don't realize that they're doing it.

Frankly,if Yuffie were a kleptomaniac, what she did would be much more forgiveable.

C. Some of Trauma's Causes

Trauma can be caused by a lot of things.

The major ones are these:

* Things you've witnessed (seen or heard, but DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN)

* Things OTHERS have done TO YOU

* Things YOU have done TO OTHERS

Vincent has been through the second and third canonically, and probably the first--- if you count the fact that he didn't stop Lucrecia.

Tifa has been through the first and second (canonically).

Aeris has been through the first and second (canonically).

Sephiroth has been through 1, 2, and 3 (canonically).

Yuffie has been through 2 (Corneo, anyone? Losing Aeris? Her mother's absence?) and 3 (canonically).

2. Crimson, you disturb me deeply. It is not only extremely unfair to compare Yuffie's trauma to anybody else's, it is simply Not Done in the field of psychology. People's life experiences are (obviously) different. The worst thing that happened to Yuffie is the worst thing that happened to Yuffie. Trauma is trauma.

If you are traumatized by something, you are traumatized by it. Other people do not have the right to say "oh, you didn't go through blah-blah-blah, so you don't have a right to feel traumatized." As somebody who HAS BEEN TOLD THAT, it really bothers me: that kind of attitude, even towards a fictional character, is frightening. One of the things I've learned about fandom is that what you say about a fictional character may well be what you'd say about a real person.

In addition, if Yuffie is 'less traumatized' than Vincent or Tifa, this is a Good Thing. We want people to be as mentally and emotionally healthy as they can possibly be.

3. We are putting Vincent with people for entirely the wrong reasons. "Understanding trauma", being able to empathize, is necessary in a relationship. But you do not EVER get into a relationship and hope to 'fix' somebody. That is what therapists are for. Vincent needs a THERAPIST to help him, not a girlfriend.

Neither Tifa, nor Aeris, nor Yuffie will be able to help him recover. Not without SOME sort of training for it. Tifa/Aeris might understand, Yuffie might help him take his mind off things, but they will not be able to 'fix' him-- if he's even fixable.

Yuffie or Tifa or Sephiroth or $otherloveinterest need to love Vincent for who he *is*, not who he *was* or who he *could be*.

4. Have you ever felt that you were obligated to do something truly awful? And I mean HAD to do it. No? Well, that's a HUGE theme in Japanese literature, and it's also something that happens to be a theme in their society, too.

Vincent's life as a Turk is traumatizing to him because he did something he knew was morally wrong because he felt he had to-- in this case, for money.

Yuffie's life as a thief would have been traumatizing to her for the *exact same reason*. She was stealing peoples' means of survival, which is little better than murder. Sure, she was serving a higher cause, but she was doing something she KNEW was wrong. She just didn't think she had a choice.

There. It's all out of my system.

I can't completely understand how you feel, being that I'm not you (which I'm sure you're glad of), but really come on now. It's just a game. And they're just thoughts and opinions made by people you hardly know.

For you to say you're disturbed by someone's comments, makes me think you're taking this way more personally than you should. No one is saying you're wrong, but you have to remember that you're not right either.

You've made very good points. But one thing I'm going to have to defend. Can you honestly say you know exactly what it feels like to go through another person's traumatic events? People react differently to the same stimulae (sp?). As a person who's had a semi-tragic life, I myself can't even begin to fathom half the stuff other people go through. You're right, it is bothering, but it's the truth.

As far as saying something about a fictional character is like saying it to a real person...well I've learned quickly not to take it personal. I've once defended Cloud x Tifa to the teeth, going as far as calling people names and whatnot. But switching over to Vincent x Tifa, meh not so much. I can't justify them as well as I'd like, but I still like them. To me it seems, that some (not all) Yuffentine shippers are more rabid than they should be. It's your preference and anything people say against it, should be easily gotten over.

Also, the emotionally stable bit...well I've also learned that most fans like their heroes / villains to be as less as possible. People are attracted to that sort of thing. It'd be pretty boring if nothing tragic happened to the FFVII characters' lives. If they were just doing it to save the world and they had nothing wrong with them, where's the story in that?

Edit: I just reread your comment, Nagia. My version of Vincent would be insulted to know that someone thinks he needs a therapist.

As far as saying something about a fictional character is like saying it to a real person...

That isn't at all what I meant. What I meant was, "what you are willing to say ABOUT a character, you can become willing to say ABOUT a real person".

Slight difference there.

As for being disturbed by that kind of mentality (the 'compare trauma' mentality), you're right.

I took it too personally, which I tend to do at three in the morning, as I'm not full of Ritalin to help me go 'taking things too personally, just shut up now'. I'll make sure not to check the forums at three AM again.

(Translation: I'm calm.)

...and... well, I'm under the legal drinking age myself, so... um, don't tell anybody?

Anyhoot, underage drinking? *GASP!!* I tell you what Kaj-Nrig, you can have some of my years and we'll call it even. I've got 8 to spare.

I think we've gone through almost every argument possible...except for the childish name-calling that is. Unless someone has more to say on this matter...

Seriously, though, I have to admit I'm surprised at how civil and mature this debate was. Hm, maybe the teeming hordes of rabid fangirls and fanboys haven't noticed the forums yet...

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