In any case, people really want me to believe that Cloud and Tifa love each other *annoyingly sweet voice* THHHAAAATTT much. Because that chilly, impersonal friendship they have which is the crux of their 'shipping? [sarcasm]Definitely a basis for true love.[/sarcasm]

Square doesn't make me buy it (given their generally so-cold-its-cringe-inducing scenes together in-game and in AC). Authors don't make me buy it (and I am sure someone will be citing those frosty scenes too). I don't care how much Square and authors force it down my throat that these two belong together, they never will for me.

Mmmmm'kay, I've said what I wanted about this pairing. Though I'll add, I don't think I've ever read a fic (most fics I read generally don't have Cloud and Tifa in starring roles) where I bought those two being together. Well-written fics included, those two have no chemistry whatsoever.

And why does everyone have this pairing as a sub pairing in practically every Yuffie fic I've ever read? I mean there's practically no escaping it! Yeah, its canon and its popular, but in every fic, even when their NOT main characters? Maybe its just Yuffie...

Well, of course they aren't going to make you buy it. That would require them to be less than ambiguous about a plot, something we all know Square is incapable of. Those scenes were devoid of romance on purpose. So yes, you're correct, there is no basis for their relationship in anything Square officially releases.

Still, a hallmark of a good author is to get you to believe whatever it is that they write. There's really no basis for any shipping in FF7, period, but it doesn't mean that there aren't some mighty good fics out there. I wonder if you still haven't read the right Cloti...

But whatever, if you loathe Tifa, then the whole thing seems rather moot.

But I still have a little soft spot for the Cloti.

all the yaoi fangirls scared the rest off...

Granted, it was a sneaky one.

You would be correct. It's more or less canon by this point.

1) It's a bit picky of me, but it was Nojima who wrote the script. Nomura usually edits a little, but nothing huge.

2) He did. The exact quote passage from the AC: Reunion Files, page 70 "Why we chose to set it two years later":

Nojima explains "Inside, I felt on thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be living back home where they belonged. Two years is too short to forget the past completely, but it's still a pretty long time...And two years older was a good age for Marlene to start a little."

3) On another note, he also refers to Tifa (In the Japanese text) as a "Koibito", which translates to "Lover". And not in the "I'm a lover, not a fighter" sense or something like that.

4) It should also be noted that in the official novella "On the Way to a Smile: Case of Tifa", it's heavily implied that they share a room (Though whether or not they share a bed is unknown). In the middle of the night she looks at him and starts talking to him with no signs of having moved from her room to his, and he looks at her from the bed without showing any surprise at all (Implying that it's fairly common for things like that to happen).

On a side note...Rend? As in "Rend0" of GameFAQs?

Anyway, I'm a pretty solid Cloud/Tifa supporter. Even if I didn't like it, I'd stick with it simply for canon (Unless it's meant to be a completely AU story).

Didn't know you were a CloudTifa supporter, I never would have guessed it....figured you have have gone after a CloudRosso or VincentRosso. lol.

P.S. Don't waste your time going after Espers, they're useless(quickings do more damage) except for the final optional two.

1) Heh. Yep. That'd be me. I usually have one or two different accounts on a site in case something happens to the other one (I've heard GF is having a problem with that), but I almost always have a "VinCon01" account, and use it the most.

2) I intend to do them all. I have the feeling my controller is going to get killed at least once along the way though...A very strong feeling...(However, seeing as I nearly worship Judge Gabranth, I'll play the game until the end).

Didn't know you were a CloudTifa supporter, I never would have guessed it....figured you have have gone after a CloudRosso or VincentRosso. lol.

*twitches* Hehehehe...About that...You might just be right. I'd suggest going to the "The Rare Pairings That you've got to Love" topic in the "Final Fantasy Fanatics" board. It has some of my more...Interesting...Pairing preferences. However, I remain a very devoted "CloTi" fan and "AeriSeph" fan (Though the UOG has made the pairing a bit difficult. The "He was controlled" option being gone and all) most of the time.

P.S. Don't waste your time going after Espers, they're useless(quickings do more damage) except for the final optional two.

Can't. My pride won't allow it. I was fighting Adrammelech with my main party (Vaan, Basch, Ashe), took a few hits, then beat him into submission with Quickenings. However, his little cronies started casting water attacks, and it took them down. So I brought out my secondary team (Fran, Balthier, Penelo) and finished Adrammelech off...Then those three were promptly killed the same way as the first team.

Hey kid, you know I never expected to actually find you here though(you didn't seem the type to be into fanfiction), on most sites, I'm usually always Rend or if Rend is taken Rend0. I always use 1 account, it's to difficult trying to remember numerous different account names.

) I intend to do them all. I have the feeling my controller is going to get killed at least once along the way though...A very strong feeling...(However, seeing as I nearly worship Judge Gabranth, I'll play the game until the end).

Yeah Gabranth kicks ass. not gonna spoil anything for you but he got some wicked dialogue near the end.

*twitches* Hehehehe...About that...You might just be right. I'd suggest going to the "The Rare Pairings That you've got to Love" topic in the "Final Fantasy Fanatics" board. It has some of my more...Interesting...Pairing preferences. However, I remain a very devoted "CloTi" fan and "AeriSeph" fan (Though the UOG has made the pairing a bit difficult. The "He was controlled" option being gone and all) most of the time.

Yeah I just checked out that topic, seems you like Yaoi pairings also, I always just find one pairing I like in a series, FF7- Cloud and Tifa, Golden Sun- Isaac and Mia(I'm not sure if this is even canon), Hellsing- Alucard and Seras. It's usually always the canon pairing, cept possibly for Golden Sun and definately for FF12- Vaan and Fran and Vaan and Ashe...I prefer Vaan and Fran more, (come on he was asking her age for a reason ya know). I tend to like ZackAerith more, there's a scene with them in the new trailer that was just released for Crisis Core(still downloading it but I read the translation from Suzaku).

Can't. My pride won't allow it. I was fighting Adrammelech with my main party (Vaan, Basch, Ashe), took a few hits, then beat him into submission with Quickenings. However, his little cronies started casting water attacks, and it took them down. So I brought out my secondary team (Fran, Balthier, Penelo) and finished Adrammelech off...Then those three were promptly killed the same way as the first team.

those cavern's suck don't they...yeah the 1st time I went in them I hated it(my 1st journey to ozmone) As for the espers you can wait till late in the game and you're super powerful to take them down easily, of course this won't help with the most powerful esper, that's the one you'll groan with(not gonna spoil anything for you), you wanna know a trick in ff12, for magic casters you can delay them by casting your magic 1st, since they will have to wait till after you finish casting your magic to cast their's and you can cast one with a pretty long animation, so while your caster cast's their magic your attackers continue to attack while they are being delayed, the delay don't affect standard attacks, you can get in 3 or 4 extra attacks this way.

Yeah, I'm a bit of a fanfiction fanatic.

*shudders* You should try remembering all of the names and passwords for different accounts on the same site...And then the same thing for all the other sites...and AIM...(Though I generally just use different variations of the same passwords). Especially since I have computer class at school...Where I have to change the password every one or two months.

Yeah Gabranth kicks ass. not gonna spoil anything for you but he got some wicked dialogue near the end.

It drives me crazy when people say stuff like that...It makes me want to see it so bad. Well, as long as he doesn't die...

Yeah I just checked out that topic, seems you like Yaoi pairings also, I always just find one pairing I like in a series, FF7- Cloud and Tifa, Golden Sun- Isaac and Mia(I'm not sure if this is even canon), Hellsing- Alucard and Seras. It's usually always the canon pairing, cept possibly for Golden Sun and definately for FF12- Vaan and Fran and Vaan and Ashe...I prefer Vaan and Fran more, (come on he was asking her age for a reason ya know). I tend to like ZackAerith more, there's a scene with them in the new trailer that was just released for Crisis Core(still downloading it but I read the translation from Suzaku).

1) Heh. There are a few I like. The problem is finding some that are actually good. Most of them are just random smut, from what I've seen.

2) W00T! Another Alucard-Seras fan.

3) I'm generally a canon-pairing die hard, but I like non-canon pairings. Unless they're completely illogical (EX: Shelke/Bugenhagen 0_o). Or if there isn't a set pairing (EX: Seeing as Quistis isn't paired with anyone in FFVIII, I don't mind if people put her with Seifer or Zell. But put her with Squall or Irvine and I'm not going for it).

MINOR FFXII SPOILERS

---

4) So...Ashe and Vaan don't get together? I don't need the details (Spoilers and all), but is there any romantic interaction between them at all? If not...That's a bit disappointing.

---

END SPOILERS

5) Heh. I'm a bit of a Zack/Aerith fan. I just haven't seen too many. From what I've seen, Cloud/Aerith, Cloud/Sephiroth, and Cloud/Tifa seem to be the dominant forces in FFVII fanfiction.

those cavern's suck don't they...yeah the 1st time I went in them I hated it(my 1st journey to ozmone) As for the espers you can wait till late in the game and you're super powerful to take them down easily, of course this won't help with the most powerful esper, that's the one you'll groan with(not gonna spoil anything for you), you wanna know a trick in ff12, for magic casters you can delay them by casting your magic 1st, since they will have to wait till after you finish casting your magic to cast their's and you can cast one with a pretty long animation, so while your caster cast's their magic your attackers continue to attack while they are being delayed, the delay don't affect standard attacks, you can get in 3 or 4 extra attacks this way.

I'll probably have to do that (Power up then go back). I'm not even in it for the espers, so much as because I want the little "Sky Pirates Den" figures. I love those little things.

And I can't believe I never noticed that trick with the magic...I'll need to work on that. Though I'm not going back into those damn caves until I've beefed up a little more (Vaan - 39, Ashe/Basch - 38, Balthier/Fran/Penelo - 18).

I'm going to start by insisting that I LOVE TIFA okay? I really think she's an awesome female character. However...I just can't accept Cloud/Tifa. It has nothing to do with the fact I'm a Clorith shipper(okay...maybe a little lol) because I also support Cloud/Yuffie(she's the only one to get a kiss out of him after all) and VincentAeris.

Cloud/Tifa just...I can't put into words how it makes me feel. It's too plain, too simple. I'm a huge romantic and love Cloud/Aerith because of the tragedy. Was I the only one who played the game and got the fact Tifa lied to Cloud about their friendship and childhood etc etc? That's not a great basis for a relationship :s

One of the other reasons I hate Cloud/Tifa is because of the constant Aerith bashing. Of course, some Cloriths are guilty of bashing Tifa too but it's more apparent in Cloud/Tifa section. That's not important though lol

P.S: Rend is one CloTi writer I respect...the only one actually lmao :P

Edit: Read "Purpose of the Forum."

Delete: Haha!

Anyways...~Fran

Tifa doesn't suck, just that the couple seems too plain to catch any interest from a romantic like me!

~Fran

lol

~Fran

~Fran

As for me... CloTi just seems to... I dunno, "fit"? Even if you disregard all the crap that goes on in the rest of the Compilation (because nobody here seems to enjoy that particular section too much), the relationship that Cloud had with Aeris/th was just way too... forced, I think.

...not meaning this in a nasty way but what makes you think that?

Cloud did a lot of things for Aerith of his own free will. I kinda thought Aerith was no more demanding of him than Tifa was.

~Fran

This is the quote that just gets my blood boiling. The problem with most Clotis is that they say "Aeris is dead, so go Cloti!". They are pretty much narrow-minded to say that if someone dies, they stop caring for them or loving them. Like I have said in so many other forums, would you stop loving your mother or some other loved one if they died? Same with Cloud. He cared for both women, and he would have suffered if one of them died. Aeris died, which was a blow for Cloud. He loved her at one point, almost revealing that he had feelings for her (near-slipups throughout the game). Death was just a physical separation between Cloud and Aerith. Clotis are forgetting the SPIRITUAL love that Clorith could share.

She didn't like Cloud before, but during the course of the game decides that she likes him, yadda yadda yadda, Lifestream, memories, etc.

Exactly. She didn't like Cloud before. And now she decides to like him. Why? Maybe to add more to the sub-plot of romance in FF7. It doesn't state why Tifa likes him now. Is it physical attraction? Is it a crush? Who knows? Granted, Aeris liked the Zack in Cloud, but if you take a date with Aeris in the Gold Saucer she says she wants to meet the "real" Cloud. She finally got the idea that Cloud was Zack, and she wanted to meet Cloud only without the Zack influence.

~Fran

1. I never said that he should go with Tifa because she was dead. Don't try to assume things that aren't true. Debating is fine, but assuming things is the reason why this stupid love triangle becomes so heated up.

2. What I said was,

"...plus, she's dead. There's no way you're going to get them to be together in life unless you employ a revival scheme, and those are just... stupid."

'She's dead' refers to her obvious lack of... life.

'Get them to be together' refers to a romantic relationship.

'In life' refers to a state of being, which one of them (Aerith) is not currently in.

Therefore, I said that since she isn't alive, she can't have a romantic relationship with him, because SHE'S NOT ALIVE.

Like I have said in so many other forums, would you stop loving your mother or some other loved one if they died? Same with Cloud. He cared for both women, and he would have suffered if one of them died.

Just because he continued to love her doesn't mean that he's going to continue to romantically love her. A relationship needs more than just a single person in it to function, and since Aerith cannot return those feelings in the same way that he shows them, they cannot and will not be a couple.

Aeris died, which was a blow for Cloud. He loved her at one point, almost revealing that he had feelings for her (near-slipups throughout the game). Death was just a physical separation between Cloud and Aerith. Clotis are forgetting the SPIRITUAL love that Clorith could share.

I have about as much... "belief" in CloTi as I do in Clorith. Which is to say that if it works, then I'm all for it. That's all. So I'd appreciate if you... I dunno... stop assuming things about me. Honestly. I haven't said enough for you to question my thinking on the subject matter of the "spiritual love that Clorith could share".

But since you brought it up, I find that to be a big crockpot of BS. Spirituality and romance are two completely different things. They may intermingle from time to time, but they are not one and the same. The problem that this couple faces is that they simply do not have the physical aspects that can feasibly work. The only way they can be together is if Cloud dies or Aerith is revived, and like I said before, the latter is a shitshot, because it just... is bad.

Granted, if it were to happen, I'm sure they could have a relationship, but since it didn't happen, and SHOULDN'T happen, then they can't ever have a relationship.

Exactly. She didn't like Cloud before. And now she decides to like him. Why? Maybe to add more to the sub-plot of romance in FF7. It doesn't state why Tifa likes him now. Is it physical attraction? Is it a crush? Who knows? Granted, Aeris liked the Zack in Cloud, but if you take a date with Aeris in the Gold Saucer she says she wants to meet the "real" Cloud. She finally got the idea that Cloud was Zack, and she wanted to meet Cloud only without the Zack influence.

1. Ah, but she did. She didn't know him well, that's a fact. But did she not come to visit him on the well? Did she not remember the promise they made on that well? There were a bunch of things that happened before that could hardly have been considered "good relationship building", but those were more or less worked out during her period with him in the Lifestream.

2. It doesn't exactly state why Aerith likes him, either, but we all sorta figured that it was, as we already said, because he reminded her of Zack.

3. She WANTS to get to know the real Cloud. But she never gets the chance, does she? She dies before even HE can get to know the real Cloud. That's what ultimately prevents her from being able to get together with him. By the time she becomes part of the Lifestream, she's transcended normal human mentalities (not that she was very normal to begin with), and from the moment she dies, they separate and become incompatible.

... ...If there's anything else I missed, then that's my fault.

Of course, I believe that Cloud loved Aerith then she died and...well...as you said they won't get together.

I also think he cared for Tifa and had high levels of affection for her. Whatever their differences and problems in childhood Cloud obviously forgave and forgot about it so they moved on so should the Cloriths that always bring it up(I did it a lot before so I'm guilty too!)

The only thing I don't agree with you on Kaj-Nrig is the thought that Cloud didn't really...like Aerith and only did what he thought should be done

I don't agree with this statement in reference to Cloud/Aerith or if Cloriths used it against Cloud/Tifa. I think he liked and loved them both equally. That's why it's a love triangle.

I do, however, prefer Cloud/Aerith because of the tragic appeal. I'm just that sort of person.

But whether or not he loved Aeris, I could see him feeling guilty for her death either way, and that being a burden on him and any of his relations for a while. I mean, he did beat on her, if you remember in the game, where Sephiroth manipulated him outside of the Temple of the Ancients. He might have felt like he ran her off, taking matters into her own hands, knowing that he could compromise the mission to save the planet she so loved. That's probably where all his guilt came from. He was apologizing for something, and he never had the chance to actually tell her, until AC.

But Aeris is not coming back to confirm or deny that any feelings Cloud might have had were returned. She didn't even bring it up in AC. This is a double-edged sword. Either this means Cloud has to move on, or it means Tifa has to suffer. This is a good place to start for a post-game fic, in my opinion.

As far as spiritual love is concerned? You need to be able to commune with a person. Spiritual love between two living people is best, in any case. The sharing of the spirit should be... well, a sharing process. I'm not sure if you understand the meaning behind spiritual love (I don't mean you, Kaj). It involves growing and learning together? As friends, lovers, an adoptive sort of family. You cannot even begin to know someone spiritually if you've never discussed what kind of a relationship you ever had to begin with.

You've probably gathered by now that whatever sort of feelings Cloud might or might not have carried for Aeris, it should be obvious that once everything was said and done, there is more potential for a relationship with Tifa. Or hell, anyone else. Because Aeris is DEAD.

Whether you think Cloud and Tifa have much of a background or not, the truth is that they built one in Midgar, personal or impersonal or whatever. Whether they remembered being close or not, they lived like they had been, until Cloud recovered his old memories. And even though most of the interaction that he remembered with Tifa in Nibelheim was actually Zack's interaction, he was in the background, and he was genuinely happy to see her then. So he was attached, at least.

On the flipside, Cloud didn't have any memories of Aeris before he met her. You know why? Because those weren't actually Zack's memories. They were Cloud's the entire time, he just thought he remembered being in Zack's place during the burning, instead of in his own, watching from outside. I cannot believe people are still even saying he had Zack's memories and, "Oh, he thought he was Zack." This is why there were huge chunks missing. Because the things he DID remember were the things he was actually there for, and the things he "lost" weren't even supposed to be there in the first place. Because he wasn't, he didn't actually HAVE Zack's memories. What he did remember, whether it was in his perspective or not, were still actually his memories. If Aeris had been aware of this like Tifa was, she might have loved Cloud for Cloud and not seen Zack in him at all. But it's too late for that now, isn't it?

(I also love how quickly she changed her tune in Maiden of the Planet, once she found all of this out and was reunited with Zack, only to rebuff him. This is why I don't like that story; it made me lose a lot of respect for her.)

Either way you look at it, I couldn't say "No, never. Absolutely not." I mean, stranger things have happened. Like Lucrecia taking an interest of any kind in both Vincent and Hojo, where their personalities seem like polar opposites. Or Shera devoting her life to Cid, despite the way he talked to her for years and ran her ragged.

My favorite portrayal of CloTi ever (and I'm pretty neutral on the pairing, honestly) was in a VinTif fic, if you can believe it. Despite that VinTif authors are famous for bastardizing Cloud. Motchi's second chapter of Path to Redemption/last chapter of First Dates brought one very important thing to light: love is about timing. People are allowed to change their minds. They're not static representations of their past. Sometimes they match up, sometimes they don't. Sometimes it's good for one side when it's bad for another. Sometimes it takes a long time for it to be right for the same people. And hopefully you find someone wonderful at the right time.

One last thing:

Why would anybody care what two pixellated characters get up to romantically? This forum is clearly a way for adolescent schoolgirls to vicariously live out their fantasies by pairing "Tifa" or "Aeris" (the character they most resemble, in other words) with their favorite hunk Cloud. Grow up and get a guy that won't dump you due to your incessant neediness.

Most of the women I've known on FFnet (including myself) are married/committed with children, and their writing reflects the lives they've already led, not the other way around. Is this a blanket statement? And why, because we've posted here? I mean, you found the need to post yourself. And it wasn't even useful.

And really if you're a fan of the game then you'd know that the gamer chose the girl not Cloud. True, there are cutscenes, dialogue etc which the gamer cant change but if you add up every pro Aerith and pro Tifa scene you'll find that, even after her death both Tifa and Aerith are almost level with each other for Cloud's affection. The only changes are the ones the gamer puts in place.

But Tifa and Cloud are too similar for it to work out in my opinion. Cloud's all depressed because Aerith and Zack's deaths. Tifa is sad because Cloud wont settle down and fight the geostigma. he's, as she says "drifting, drifting drifting..."

I just dont like them together. That's not to say that they probably wont end up together but if they do I still wont support them. And unless Square completely change their characters(which they obviously never will) then I'll never like the pairing.

~Beeria

(sorry, I could not resist that)

The compilation does ruin the storyline alot and just makes the whole problem more complicated. I tend to just stick to the game. Mostly because it's pretty much unbiased in opinion for the girls unless you count the decisions the gamer makes themselves.

Square should have decided way back then what girl they wanted with Cloud because now it's too late. If they choose now they'll risk losing fans of the opposite side. I won't care either way because I dont support that many canon pairings even if they are chokingly obvious(like SquallRinoa, TidusYuna etc) I prefer to choose my own pairings on who I truly think go together, in my own opinion. I'll just continue with my Cloud/Aerith no matter what happens.

~Beeria

I don't mind anyone liking it, I just fail to see what's so romantic about it. In most Cloti fics they make Cloud OOC. They completely forget that he is extremely shy and most of the time they leave Aerith out of the equation entirely, like she had nothing to do with FFVII whatsoever.

The only good Cloti fic I ever read I forgot the name, but it was the most realistic in character Cloti fic I'd seen ... I forgot what it was called, it was short, a one-shot and it dealt with Tifa's feelings ... I can't remember it for the life of me -_-;

Really, when it comes to a better coupled story, Clorith takes the cake. I'm sorry Clotis. :(

CLORITH RULEZ! :)

Dilly-dally, maybe. You know, dilly-dally doesn't mean just to doddle, or be stuck. It is a word for a state of nervous indecisiveness. In other words, flakey.

I have to say I prefer CloTi over Clorith, even though I'd rather see them both end up with different people. But I like them done honestly, which I think is very hard to do. Everyone hates emo Cloud, and they're right—he shouldn't be portrayed as ultimately broken, because there's no room to do anything with that, and it's hopeless. But! They also shouldn't try to make it like everything is suddenly better and Tifa should just accept it. I'd be more likely to believe that Tifa would have trouble accepting Cloud's turnaround, even though it's the thing she's been waiting for. Because honestly, her being, 'okay, now I can have a happy ending!' makes her look naïve and like a doormat. He's put her through a lot, and I don't like how she would only take that from him. Game-Tifa stood up for herself when the issue came up, instead of waiting around.

Clorith, on the other hand, unless it takes place during the game, doesn't leave much room to work with, either.

'Cause she's dead?

Then we clearly aren't reading the same stories. In those that I've read, even if Tifa actually appears rather than just disappearing into the void, she's made out to be just as much of a ***** as Aerith is in Cloti stories. Those that I've read also tend to do the exact same thing to Cloud that you just described. Well, that or he's the uber-angst god. As for even adding a little Cloti...Heh. I don't think I've ever seen a single one that did that.

I think that when a writer has to completely vilify a character by writing them as a bitch in order to make their plot work, then it shows a lack of skill.

I still can't see Cloti at all. I see Cloud only looking at Tifa as a friend, maybe even family. The fact that it's been 3 years and he still hasn't moved on and shagged her and had 30 rotten Cloti babies should be a fair enough reason. I think he loves Aerith, and even though she is dead he still holds her in his heart because he knows she was there for him all along. In fact in DoC it even prooves it by saying Aerith is a person Cloud will never forget. Just because you would like Cloud to move on does not mean he will ever move on with Tifa, at least I never see this coming from Square ... ever.

And it was never confirmed that Cloud ever had a crush on Tifa, even as kids. It could have been seen that he only wanted to be included in their play group, and that is understandable. It looks like he was probably shunned from everyone as a child. So you're opinion means moot to me.

I didn't see Cloud and Tifa having some great love saga a la Squall and Rinoa at all ... and the proof is in the pudding. They keep coming out with compliations and they still aren't a couple, not in a romantic way and Cloud still keeps Aerith in his heart.

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