Bellatrix & The Blacks Discussion - Black Magic Forum

Topic: Bellatrix & The Blacks Discussion

Hi! This is the place for discussion about the Blacks, try and keep the Random Discussion topic for just that, random discussion! Just to get us started, how about a question that always gets everyone arguing: is Bella actually insane? ^_^ Guaranteed chaos...

#1 Oct 07th 2007, 6:58am

Well, I think she is, by the time we see her anyway. Azkaban + worshipping old Moldyshorts = enough to drive anyone barmy.

I believe that she was a cold-hearted cow (sorry Bonnie, but you can't deny that's what she is) before Azkaban, but insanity probably has demented her even more so.

#2 Oct 07th 2007, 7:01am

Hmm, I don't know about a cold-hearted cow - as we know she still loves some of her family, in a strange twisted way -, but arrogant, slightly bitchy and very discriminatory, definitely... And yes, I do think she's insane by the time we meet her in OotP, not necessarily at her trial in GoF though. Insane is probably the wrong word, actually; if she were clinically insane, she wouldn't know that what she was doing was wrong, and she most certainly does!

#3 Oct 07th 2007, 7:06am

*slightly* bitchy? Well, I'd say that's an understatement, but whatever.

I suppose she loves Narcissa, you can tell that much. I agree that in the pensieve in GoF she was still almost-sane (I'm of the opinion she's a little bonkers by this point).

Maybe she's not exactly ever clinically insane, but I would still class her as 'inhinged' at the very least.

Oooh, this is fun!

#4 Oct 07th 2007, 7:13am

Be warned, this is NOT going to descend into the much-hated bellabashing, you know there's a seperate topic for that! ^_^ Yes, she is 'unhinged', at the very least.

#5 Oct 07th 2007, 7:16am

Agh, caught :P.

But yeah, what kind of relationship do you think Bella and Andromeda had? Like, d'you think they were close?

#6 Oct 07th 2007, 7:22am

I mean before Ted Tonks obviously.

#7 Oct 07th 2007, 7:23am

Duh... Well, yeah I'd imagine them being pretty close. They were sisters, after all, and I think Bella and Narcissa are just a little too different to get on with each other properly, so maybe Bella turned to Andromeda...

#8 Oct 07th 2007, 7:27am

In one of the interviews JKR gave (yes I read interviews... pretty weird, eh? xD) it says Bellatrix doesn't really love, it's more of an obsession.

I don't know why, but I like Bellatrix. As a character, I mean. Wouldn't like to meet her in person, unless I had a privacy bubble around me so she wouldn't strangle me :)

I can't really imagine Bella and Cissy either - maybe just Bellatrix grumbling at Cissy's naivety (that's how I imagine the younger Narcissa - sweet and innocent xP).

Could be Bella and Andromeda, but wouldn't they have different views? Unless Andromeda changed after she met Ted..

#9 Oct 26th 2007, 6:12am

Oooh, yay, we're discussing Andromeda, who I've thought through a lot! x)

I believe that Andromeda would have believed everything her sister said, and would have looked up to Bellatrix an awful lot. It's my opinion that neither of them thought too much about the whole pureblood thing, and just accepted what their family believed before either started Hogwarts. After all, young children tend to accept what they're told about religion and other cultures etc. If you are racist then your seven-year-old is likely to have rascist beliefs also because that is all they know. Of course, when Bellatrix starts Hogwarts she does take a bigger interest in the prejudices of her family, and gets obsessed with the Dark and all it entails.

Andromeda, in my opinion, would still look up to her sister, until she herself started challenging the beliefs of the Blacks probably at some point during her early years at Hogwarts. She meets Ted, and Ted shows her so much more about life than she had ever seen through the rose-tinted spectacles she has been handed by her priveledged lifestyle. And she proably hates him at first for making her feel differently about everything and challenging the principles she was brought up with. Then she falls in love, and it's not with some rich pureblood Slytherin that her parents and sisters aprove of, it's with the mudblood that seems to get on her nerves just by being him.

I intend to write about this stuff at some point (uh-oh, big-long-chaptered-fic-alert!) when I get the time to complete that pesky first chapter :P. It's about halfway there lol!

#10 Oct 26th 2007, 8:55am

Oh, and there's nothing weird about reading interviews An! If there is then the men in white coats will be coming for me any minute O_o.

And that certainly sounds more accurate than love, thanks for that :)!

#11 Oct 26th 2007, 8:57am

Eeep, just remembered something I wanted to say. Bellatrix does care about Narcissa, and Narcissa looked up to her and Andromeda as a child. Bella and Andi were much closer to each other than their youngest sister though, and when Andi was disowned Bella probably tried to replace her with Cissy.

And where to start with Narcissa? She is seen as naive and innocent and not particularly intelligent by a lot of people (including her sisters) but I think she sees a lot more than they give her credit for. She likes having a safety net, but if the need arises then she can be a leader just as well as her sisters. And I think she knew about Ted before the rest of her family did. She just didn't tell them, and she disapproved of what Andi was doing and told her so, but she kept her sister's secret. A part of her is jealous too, don't get me wrong, she has the pureblood mentality and believes she is above muggleborns and the like, but a little part of her would like to go against her family, just to see what they would say. But she doesn't, because she's Narcissa and she's always there for everyone she loves. She's the one everyone relies on to sit there and look pretty and not have a clue what's going on, and she resents that, but accepts it.

That is just how I would characterise her :S.

#12 Oct 26th 2007, 9:09am

Good God Huffle, you have waaaaaay too much time on your hands! Are you doing psychology at school or something?! :) Complicated character analysis... XD I sometimes read interviews An, when I come across them. I don't come across them very often, as I spend all of my time on the net on FF, or writing it, but I ocassionally go on Mugglenet and take a look.

#13 Oct 26th 2007, 12:39pm

And Huffle, if that's your characterisation of the whole Andy/Ted/Bella thing, you need to go read A Keen Observer by DeepDowSlytherin, at www.fanfiction.net/~deepdownslytherin it fits your ideas perfectly! Spooky...

#14 Oct 26th 2007, 3:45pm

I actually don't have much time on my hands at all, I just skive off everything else to come on here! No, not doing psychology, but I'm quite good at character analysis (can you tell? :P). My mind goes off in tangents a lot, especially during Physics. Physics is the class I daydream the most in because one of my best friends is in the class and I can find out what the teacher said from her. For some reason beyond my comprehension, she actually ENJOYS Physics! And I've been thinking the characters over loads recently for the purpose of writing fanfic hehe.

#15 Oct 26th 2007, 4:47pm

Yeah, my friends do that: switch off in science and rely on me and C to fill them in afterwards. You *do* need to understand the characters to be able to write about them... I do it mostly in History and Maths, because, quite frankly, the British Industrial Revolution bores me to tears, and, really, just how many lessons do we need to spend on Pythagoras? ^_^

#16 Oct 27th 2007, 5:26am

Hehe, pythagoras is easy, we spent ages on it too. Right now we're doing the Sine and Cosine rules, fairly easy now I've got the hang of it, but now we need to work out which to use on which triangle, and I don't understand the difference at all. Soooo, I'm copying my friend :).

#17 Oct 27th 2007, 5:57am

I think we're a wee bit off topic :)

Our math goes a wee bit fast - half an hour on Pythagorean Theorem, two on Sine/Cosine, and all for homework. Blergh. And my friends have to spend another few hours trying to explain to me Sine/Cosine. Haha.

It's supposed to be the bee-yoo-tee-ful weekend where I can spend my two days on the computer. Instead, I'm getting three-min glimpses :(

#18 Oct 27th 2007, 7:20am

An, I wish I went to your school... we go too slow here! I wish we were moving onto Trignometry and stuff, but I *think* we've finished Pythagoras. I HOPE we've finished Pythagoras! It's *so* easy, and I honestly don't see how we're ever gonna use it, apart from some of the more practical aspects that could potentially be useful in the future. I heard once that we only use a fifth of what we learn at school in later life! :)

#19 Oct 27th 2007, 7:54am

...I bet you thirty quid that it's the fifth of things we learn at school that I don't understand :P. That's just my luck lol.

#20 Oct 27th 2007, 10:51am

Whooooooo! 100th post! Anywaaaaaay... You know, I'd take you up on that bet, but how exactly is that thirty quid going to find its way to me, all the way down here in England, when you don't even know which county I live in? :) And I'm telling you either, just in case you're actually some perverted stalker masquerading as an innocent teen! XD I'm sure you're not though...

#21 Oct 27th 2007, 2:24pm . Edited Oct 27th 2007, 2:24pm

Ah, but that's the beauty of betting people on forums - they can't take your money if you lose because they can't find you! xD.

(for the record, teen - yes, innocent - not particularly)

When am I ever going to need to know the amount of bloody electrons in whatver element that droning robot who calls herself my Chem teacher sees fit to ask us about? Ack. But this thread is for discussing the Blacks, not the teachers I'd like to Crucio =P.

How do you guys see Regulus? Because I don't see him as some wimp like a lot of people do.

I think in his early years of Hogwarts he admired his brother, but wanted to please his parents, and was really torn between the two. He was probably quite smart, quite talented, quite good-looking, but he never matched up to Sirius in any of these aspects, or any others for that matter. His parents wanted him to be better than his brother, but he knew he can't be, because he just wasn't. He joined the Death Eaters because Bellatrix asked him to, and Sirius had never been a Death Eater, this was something he could excel at without his brother beating him. Except Sirius did beat him, because he was in the Order and he was better at fighting, like he was in everything else. Regulus hated Sirius, but he loved and admired him as much as he did as a child, and he tried to deny this, because he shouldn't care, Sirius was just an enemy in battle. They possibly dueled, and Sirius won but couldn't kill his Death Eater little brother, and Regulus hated him even more for that, for having to live with the fact that he only survived because Sirius let him. So he didn't survive, and he intended to take down a part of Voldemort with him, and Sirius never did that, did he?

Except he never did get his great moment because Kreacher couldn't destroy the Horcrux, and nobody even knew that he tried until nineteen years later when Regulus had been gone and almost completely forgotten nearly two decades, and even the brother he worked so hard to best had bit the dust.

#22 Oct 27th 2007, 2:53pm

Eeep, I was gonna write the second chapter of my new Remus/Tonks two-shot tonight, but methinks I might have to write Regulus after thinking him through like that :S.

#23 Oct 27th 2007, 2:58pm . Edited Oct 27th 2007, 3:02pm

The whole Black family is a therapist's worst nightmare....

#24 Oct 27th 2007, 3:02pm

No, I think a therapist would LOVE to councel the Blacks! I mean, a thirteen year old girl has picked them apart in hours... Is the first chapter of that RemusxTonks up? I shall go check... I'm currently reading a really... intriguing book, called Monkey Taming: It's about a girl (our age) with anorexia. I'm only halfway through, but it's absolutely brilliant! It's a true story kinda thing, the author actually was anorexic at one point. She has this monkey inside her that's always making her exercise, not eat, calling her names when she eats, telling her she's fat... I think it might be a little inaccurate though; the girl in question is the same weight as me, three inches shorter, and I am definitely NOT anorexic. o.O

#25 Oct 27th 2007, 3:28pm

...yeah, but if said therapist was to be in a room with said inbred madhouse (xD I love them really) then it would probably be the last thing the poor therapist ever did.

If the girl hasn't been anorexic for long then she wouldn't be under-weight yet. Sounds like a good book, I'll look out for it.

#26 Oct 27th 2007, 4:26pm

Inbred madhouse... I like it! Yeah, said therapist would probably never see the light of day again. XD

#27 Oct 27th 2007, 4:37pm

The word therapist really freaks me out... I mean something else kinda jumps out of the word at you, don't you think?! It could rather disconcerting for some clients...

#28 Oct 27th 2007, 4:48pm

Ooh I just had a phone call with my "therapist" aka friend =D

Now I feel so much better/crazy -.0

#29 Nov 23rd 2007, 8:15am

This is going to sound really weird, but I've always sort of wanted to go to a therapist, just so I can say, "Oh, my therapist once told me..."

... Jeez, what is wrong with me? xD

I'd love to see Bella's reaction to a therapist. Would she kill him/her, toy with him/her, sob to him/her, etc.?

#30 Dec 05th 2007, 11:37am

Heh, good point... And yes, the words, "My therapist said..." can be very effective! Not that I have a therapist. I would never be able to tell someone loads of stuff about myself, face to face; I mean, I can tell you guys everything, because you have no idea who I am or anything, but I tell you stuff I wouldn't tell my best friend...

#31 Dec 05th 2007, 11:55am

Oh, same! A lot of my friends don't even know that I write fanfiction because, well, I don't think they'd understand. None of them are big writers, so the compulsion isn't something they can relate to, you know?

#32 Dec 05th 2007, 12:10pm

I don't have the same situation; some of my friends write (just random stuff, not FF), and some of them kind of know I do, but I wouldn't want them to read it, although one broke her promise and did it anyway.

#33 Dec 05th 2007, 12:11pm

Actually, now that I think about it, my friends all have really different hobbies. One's a singer, one's a dancer, one's into acting, one's athlectic, etc. We don't really share too many activities.

A few of them know that I like to write-- I've confessed to them that I have characters and plot ideas bouncing constantly around my mind-- but they don't know about my fanfic account or anything.

#34 Dec 05th 2007, 12:22pm

I have a friend that knows all about my fanfic, but I encourage her NOT to read it... she knows I go on forums, she just doesn't know where and I have absolutely no intention of telling her.

#35 Dec 05th 2007, 12:24pm

Yeah, I can understand why; fanfic seems to be the type of site that loses its allure when people you actually know go on it and you can't say anything you want to anymore.

And, building on the freedom to say anything, can I just mention how much my English teacher scares/annoys me? Because the other day in class I was sitting there, minding my own business, when she stared straight at me and said to the class, "Sometimes teachers just don't like students." I don't even know what I did to set her off, because I'm one of those quiet kids who never talks back to my teachers. x_x

#36 Dec 05th 2007, 12:30pm . Edited Dec 05th 2007, 12:33pm

Aww! That's just nasty... :( I don't think I've ever had any teachers like that...

#37 Dec 05th 2007, 12:33pm

She's infamous in our school for being like that, though. She actually harrassed a kid so much that he left our school system halfway through term one, and he's another student who's never gotten into trouble with a teacher before.

By the way, I love your avi! xD It's so great!

#38 Dec 05th 2007, 12:40pm

Oh, that's bad! :/ I love yours too!

#39 Dec 05th 2007, 1:05pm

Thanks!

So, let's get back to those Blacks, shall we? xDD

Do you think Narcissa and Lucius have a loving relationship? Or was their marriage forced on them? I can never decide which is true.

#40 Dec 05th 2007, 1:19pm

I don't really think about it much... I think it was a forced marriage, but Draco brought them together and they came to love each other. How sweet... Visit this link for my take on their relationship: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3520606/1/A_Single_Unguarded_Moment The author's brilliant, you should definitely check her out.

#41 Dec 05th 2007, 1:28pm

Oh, wow, that was such a great fic! Thank you for giving me the link. :)

That does seem like the perfect way to describe their relationship, but what about Bella's and Rodolophus'? Do you think they ever cared about each other (until she became obsessed with Voldemort, that is)?

#42 Dec 05th 2007, 1:43pm

That's one I've really never been able to answer... XD

#43 Dec 05th 2007, 1:45pm

I think I've seen Bella put with every Death Eater in some fic or another, so maybe she loves everyone and gets around a lot? xDD

And I realize that makes it sound like Bella was with them all in one fic, but I'm too lazy to fix the sentence. ;)

#44 Dec 05th 2007, 1:52pm

lol... Yeah, it seems she DOES get around a lot! Bella = village slut... XD It seems her/anyone is perfectly acceptable...

#45 Dec 05th 2007, 2:10pm

XD She is into a man with slits for nostrils, after all; can't be too picky. ;)

Bella fascinates me, though; her mind is so twisted and interesting. Even before Azkaban, she was so... dark.

#46 Dec 05th 2007, 2:22pm

Cuban Sombrero Gal

Bella and Rudy never loved each other. It was a societal marriage, and Bella only went along with it to be favourable with the Dark Lord. She never loved anyway, all she ever wanted was power and nothing more. A lot like a female version of Voldemort, minus the shady, non-pureblood past, I guess. Rudolophus strikes me as quite timid, so I doubt he would have stood up to her, and basically, they never loved each other and she walked all over him.

#47 Dec 07th 2007, 4:40pm

agrEEd! :)

But Bella had a somewhat love-obsession with voldy...

#48 Dec 07th 2007, 5:22pm

I just got the most random urge to write a three- or four-shot about the relationship between Narcissa and Lucius. Does my mind not understand that I've already got too much to write as is? xD

#49 Dec 08th 2007, 6:47am