So - it may later progress to other traits of our beloved pureblood, but right now I'm deeply fascinated with the "why"s and "how"s of him being an ancestor of Kuran clan. Not even the actual "how did Rido bring him back" and what it entailed, since it's pretty obvious we can't secondguess the mangaka (and thank God for that!), but about how much and how distinctly he remembers his past life, and how in the manga flashbacks he appears to act and speak as fully aware "ancestor" one moment and behave as the child of his age in another.

Now, wonderful Sagakure has shared her thoughts on it in her review, and I'll quote the pertinent part here now, so that we can discuss it at more length. And if anyone has their own thoughts and theories on the matter, please, do join the discussion, because I really, really want to explore the possibilities of this topic.

Quote: Sagakure

About the ancestor issue, the manga hasn't revealed yet for us to know for sure (neither has the fanbook) what happened, but I can tell you that the council wiping out happened in present time, while Rido was at the school, not in the past. ^^/ It sounded like you were saying it was in the past, in your author's note, so just in case I wanted to clarify. (It could be just that I misread due to writing this late while I'm much too tired and sleepy. XD; Sorry if it's the case. *tends to have little time and ends up doing fandom activities while half-asleep* XD;;) So, we don't know for sure what Rido did, but my personal theory is that the Kaname you see at age five, meeting Aidou for the first time, is the normal Kaname prior to Rido's intervention. Same for that 5 or 6 at most little Kaname who met Shizuka, and whom she thought looked so innocent and fragile that years later she decided to make him her prey based on believing he'd be easier to take than another pureblood. But by the time Rido attacked again and Yuuki turned human (Kaname was 8), it was already ancestor-version-Kaname. So I believe it happened at some point between ages 5 (or 6) and 8. Hence why he was so different the next time he met Aidou, at the party. We also know that he remembers the things from before, so whatever happened, he does has the memories of himself smaller. Of course this is just theory. It's just as possible that Rido did the thing when Kaname was a mere newborn and so he was the ancestor all along, and only became darker because of looking Yuuki and the parents... So yeah, there's no sure way to know, but we can base various theories on what we do know. ;D

OK, to answer and elaborate:

1. what I actually wanted to say was that when we see Kaname now doing away with Council, he actually says that it was something he wanted to do but refrained from doing in the past, i.e. in his life before the awakening. So - he obviously remembers the events of his pre-awakening life (the life where he apparently was a grown-up person) more or less in detail. But here it looks normal because Kaname now is a grown up person. On the other hand - when Rido comes to Haruka and Juri's house he also says a few lines that show his awareness of himself being an awakened ancestor - both to Juri, when he says that it was him, who should have withstood Rido, and talkng to Rido during their fight. On the other hand - later on, during his visits to Yuuki at Cross's house we see him behaving quite like a child of 8-10 years old would (the scenes where he lets Yuuki touch his fangs and where he laughs out so hard he falls - as examples). Just where was the "grown-up ancestor" awareness then?

2. Now you raise an interesting question of when exactly the exchange happened. The way you put it - it seems quite plausible an explanation of where the darkness and vampness that Shizuka sees in grown-up Kaname came from as opposed to the innocent child she remembered. As for Aidou remembrances... Kaname does act older than the other children even around five, but then he (his body?) is older than them by a year or two anyway, and it is the age where such a difference counts, besides - the isolation he's kept in seemingly at that time might work the difference. But if your theory is true - I have a hard time to wrap my mind around the fact that at eight he actually remembers himself at five. Does it mean that some remnants of Haruka and Juri's son are also somewhere there - suppressed in much the way Rido suppresses Shiki? I do not want to believe this of Kaname that he willingly would suppress the real host of his body for all these years... Could be that they were bound to such position by Rido's awakening, but then - with Rido dead, what will happen then? There are possibilities in this question (a sort of twisted plot bunny) but I just plain do not want it to be so *refuses to pursue the abhorrent creature*. Also - if Yuuki was born to become Kaname's wife - and she was 5 at the time of their parents' murder - that would mean that she was intended for her real brother, right?

And what I've mentioned in 1. about his behaviour definitely after still remains unexplained. Wouldn't all this grown-up remembrances impede the childish behaviour, don't you think?

Here I am. ;)

1) I've been pondering about that for a while too, although we have so little elements of how it works so far in the manga, that it's hard to have theories.

But I like to think that perhaps, the way it worked was that somehow the soul merged with the body, so even though he has enough awareness of himself as the ancestor, he is still a child. He will react like a child, and indeed be hindered by that in some cases perhaps, even though he is still the ancestor as well and deep inside, he knows enough to say things like "I should have taken care of the Rido issue" etc. So basically, he has the ancestor's soul, but his body and mental age is still that of a child, so even if he has somre more mature moments, he won't be as mature as a few years later. ^^/

Because he's a child he falls for all of the chairman's stories and looks so cutely flustered blushing when he realizes he'd been had yet again. XD (Or when Juri toys with him, hahahaha. XD) Perhaps, the ancestor within is all shocked that he fell for tricks again, due to being a child. ;)

I don't think the ancestor's conscience is separated from the body in any way, so it would be hindered by the body's age and all that.

I also wonder a lot whether he's always had all his memories as the ancestor. Because it's not impossible that despite the soul thing, it would have taken some time for him to gain control over all his abilities after the thing that Rido did, perhaps... so maybe he remembers his past life now, but didn't when he was younger... There's so many possibilities.

2) I know, he's an year older than them. :) I wasn't talking about their first meetings, in Aidou's house or in the park. Kaname was actually behaving like a child in those meetings. His deep worry that he'd somehow insulted Aidou and all that.... if anything, in his utter innocence he didn't seem much older than Aidou then, despite being an year older. XD Aidou was totally leading. XD;; *LOL* It's a few years later, when they meet again after Kaname is under Ichiou's guardianship, that Aidou realizes Kaname is completely different now, much more dark and scary, nowhere how he was the times they met before. (Which is very similar to what Shizuka was saying of him being so vampire now, when he'd been so innocent back when he was a small child.) Hence why I think that maybe, Rido did the ancestor thing (whetever it involves) at one point after the age when we saw that Kaname was innocent, and before the age we saw him again being much darker. (Hence my theory of it maybe having happened between ages 5 and 8.)

Of course, like I said in my review, it's just a theory. So far not enough stuff has been revealed in the manga for us to know exactly what happened, or at exactly which point.

OK, Ialso thought on this being the possibility - that his body being a child would affect his reactions (*cough* mental powers? *cough*). In fact I think Rido refers to this expressly in that first encounter, saying something like "Even when you regain all of your power you won't be able to kill me".

I can also entertain an idea that maybe the ancestor memories are pretty much dormant - only resurfacing on the moments when they connect with what's happening now - which unsurprisingly mostly relates to Rido, and lately also to the council. Could be also that strong emotion sort of brings them back too - which Rido provokes undoubtedly, and at the time he shredded the council Kaname obviously was not only determined to do it for (the global peace) greater good, but also was pretty raw - emotionally, what after Yuuki staying behind and all.

You know, now I had time to think some more on it - I am even more prepaired to acept your theory in regards of the age when the exchange occured. And of course, the little puzzle of how he has "the strongest Kuran blood" if he was in the body of Yuuki's real brother is somewhat explained by what Maria Kurenai said about Shizuka's being in her body thus improving her health - the soul sort of rubs on on the body, eh? Probably goes both ways too - which supports the child/ancestor dichotomy. Makes one wonder if Rido has rubbed in whatever way on Shiki's body - some increase of powers, lol? Though of course he never was there as long as Kaname in his body, or even Shizuka in the body of Maria Kurenai.

The only thing that still bothers me is that if the exchange really occured at this age - that means Yuuki was already born by then. Why then hasn't Rido stolen both Kuran children at once? Oh, and have you actually asked yourself - how come Kaname ended back with his (body's) parents?

OK, and a few short things before I return to my deadline-ing.

Yeah, those moments when Cross lured him under all the false pretences... You know, I only recently read the manga versions of them, and the anime has omitted a few lines obviously. I must say, that those tricks that Chairman pulled made me want to laugh and cry simultaneously. I mean, they were funny, but also a bit - cruel? To imagine what Kaname had felt when he rushed there? I know I tend to overanalyze everything...

Yes. :D I like that line too, it fuels my theories on the subject greatly also. X3 *inevitably fangirls Rido x Kaname* XD *lol*

And I also like to think the memories are dormant too, whether because he hasn't regained all his power yet (and thus part of him is still dormant), or because of other reasons. I think it would make sense that in a more emotional moment, he might be more likely to be able to access that power again.

As for the strongest blood, there's a number of reasons why it could be the case. (I wonder if Rido somehow put more than just the ancestor's soul in the boy's body, if it's the boy's body that Kaname is inhabiting. Perhaps blood or something would have somehow strengthened his own...) Or it could be just that he already has really strong blood due to being a Kuran (they have stronger blood than any other pureblood, due to the direct lineage form the ancestor), and then, maybe Kaname was born especially powerful. (It's the case with hunters, they are each born with more or less potential to be powerful, so perhaps it's also the same with vampires, a child might be extremely powerful due to his already exceptional blood... maybe). Maybe that's why Rido chose him, even. (Although I think it's likely it was because a child would make a more likely prey than someone adult and more dangerous, like say, Haruka for example.)

It's not for the Maria reason though, because she wasn't getting better health from Shizuka's presence in her body. ^^/ Shizuka was going to give her her blood to strenghten her, that was what that was about. ^^/ But the way Kaname would be inhabiting the boy's body might be a lot more powerful than the simple momentary possession of SHizuka in Maria's body and so on... maybe. (Otherwise, there wouldn't be the whole drama of Rido having taken the child from Haruka and Juri. Kaname would just vacate that body so they wouldn't suffer. It must be different, he must be stuck in it due to whatever Rido did to merge him with that body, or somehting. If indeed it's the body of the child, which I think/theorize it is...)

As for why he didn't take Yuuki too, I'm assuming he didn't know about her yet. They kept her very secret. And we saw that Yuuki had only recently started having nightmares where she saw Rido's eyes watching her. So I think he found out about her more recently. (Either that or maybe she had to be a certain age for whatever he wanted to do to work... vampires change as they wean. WHen very small they drink energy etc, and then later they drink blood when their fangs are ready for that. Maybe it's that what he was waiting, for some reason. She recognized the smell of her dad's blood, so maybe she already had reached the blood-drinking age.)

And as for how Kaname got back to his parents, we know that prior to Rido attacking the manor to get Yuuki, he was in theory imprisoned (though the council let him go because they're corrupt and wanted him to kill the Kurans.) I believe that after he did whatever he did to Kaname, Haruka and Juri found him, beat him, and took Kaname back. Rido said they should have imprisoned him elsewhere other than handling him to the council, and Haruka said Juri and him just wanted Rido away from them so they wouldn't have to see him again after what he did to their child.

So I think they rescued Kaname, which makes me wonder if Rido was going to do more if they hadn't arrived... (I don't mean kinky stuff, hahahaha. XD Although I do have fanfic ideas passed in that moment, oh yeah. XD)

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