Okay, so we all know that God/Jesus did a lot of amazing things in the Bible, right? Things that are not possible and couldn't possibly be explained scientifically. How come God doesn't perform miracles today?

Now, some Christians would say he DOES perform miracles. Such as healing a cancer patient. Yes, God did it. Not the doctors, but God. The problem is this is not a miracle. Yes, someone winning the battle against cancer is a wonderful thing, certainly, but it's not exactly a miracle. Cancer and tumors have been known to just go away. It's medically possible for cancer to go into remission, but people think this is the work of God. So, God will heal a few cancer patients, but why doesn't he heal amputees? Certainly this shouldn't be difficult for him. I mean, he's God, he can do anything. So why is it so hard for him to regrow an amputated limb? This would definitely be the first step in getting people to believe there's a God, because cancer can actually go away. It CAN be healed. But amputees cannot regrow limbs. It's something that is 100% impossible to do. No medicine is going to grow another leg. This would be God's golden opportunity to show everyone that he is real, and yet he doesn't do it. Instead he chooses to heal the people who can easily be healed by the medicine created by HUMANS.

Seriously, we do not see miracles today. A person getting over the flu is not a miracle. A person surviving breast cancer is not a miracle, because these things aren't medically impossible.

And then there is always the flip side; if god is responsible for all the good~ isn't he also responsible for all the bad? This is always what frustrates me when trying to discuss religion w/closed minded people. Instead of "Faith" based initiatives we need "Fact" based.

Yeah, see that's the thing. Whenever something wonderful happens, people thank God for it, and if something bad happens, they say, "Oh well, we can't blame God for this. This is all the fault of man." Or sometimes they'll say the devil did it. Either way, God's never at fault for the bad stuff. Well, sorry. But if God gets the credit, he also gets the blame.

I think Christians' excuse for the bad things that happen in life is, "It's all a part of God's plan."

Ah, yes. I get so sick of hearing that excuse. Sorry, but that's not good enough for me. People can yammer on about how there's a deeper meaning behind a five-year-old girl getting brutally raped right before being beaten to death with a bat, but there's no reason for it. Not if there really is a man up there living in the sky who controls everything.

SusieBeeca on deviantART said it best: "There's a clear difference between thinking Evolution is evil and thinking that Someone shot lightning into mud and then sat back and watched as enzymes formed. Personally, I lean towards the latter. But, c'mon - we're all descendants of a rib-challenged golem who was born intersexed?"

The big problem I have with most conservatives is that they're against research that has so much potential to save and change lives. Stem cell research being the big one. They claim God can make the invalid walk and the blind see, and that He helps those who help themselves, yet whenever anyone makes headway on a way to help people better their lives, it's always decried as immoral and against God's will. My response to that is, "Well, what if this is your God handing you that miracle and the way to make it happen?" Yes, I agree that it's a VERY sad thing that these stem cells come from aborted babies. There's no doubt about that. But I would certainly prefer them to go towards beneficial research rather than just being disposed of to rot in a dumpster somewhere. Think of all the people whose lives would be so drastically improved by this research. Although the reason I'm so passionate about it is probably because I've got a friend who's never known the joy of walking or running, and I would give the world for him to be able to experience it, even just once.

And you hit the nail on the head with this: "How come God doesn't perform miracles today?" I always wondered that myself. One of the first questions I remember asking was, "How come God doesn't talk to anybody anymore?" The only answer I can really come up with for that is because he never did. Maybe I'm wrong, but my logic tells me that I'm not.

Well you see, some Christians WILL say, "Oh but God HAS spoken to me!" And once again, they'll pull that egotistical "You just don't have enough faith" bullshit when you say God has never spoken to you. Now for most atheists like myself, there's a few explanations: mental problems, it may have just been a dream, or they just made the shit up. Either way, it's not proof that God exists.

But in the Bible it's apparent that God outright spoke to people all the time. Even appeared before them to speak to them. I'd sure as hell be a believer if he did that. I wouldn't worship him of course. Not if he's the same God in the Old Testament. But I'd be a believer, sure.

See, you assume that the Bible says God spoke to people all the time. This is not true. The Bible only consists of five MAJOR points in history: The Creation, The Exodus, The Story of the Kings/Judges of Israel, Jesus' Ministry, and the Ministry of the Apostles, and then some filler. These major periods were where the majority of the miracles and everything took place. The Bible doesn't cover ALL of history, just the important parts.

And about amputees... Just because there is no visible proof God has healed an amputee, it doesn't mean that He hasn't. There is currently no proof any cat has been in my yard. Therefore, by your logic, it is safe to say that no cat ever HAS BEEN or WILL BE in my yard.

I do agree with you on one part. Some people certainly have mistakenly thought God has spoken to them. People have done some messed up stuff in the name of God. Killings, Crusades, founding the Westboro Baptist Church...

And another thing, who is to say that the medical problem going away isn't God's work? Unexplained, miraculous things have taken place, and even athiests will admit to that, but they just write it off as a coincidence. And what about surgery? Without a miracle, the patient will be in a worse state than before. All the surgeon does is cut and paste.

PS: Why hate on Christianity so much, and not Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Mormonism, etc...?

About the cat in the yard:

The problem with this comparison is that it is not an extraordinary claim. I know for a fact that cats exist, and I myself have seen them wander into my yard and have seen them in other people's yards. This isn't a mind boggling event. However, an amputee regrowing a limb is a history-making, CNN-worthy event, and I highly doubt someone would stay quiet about it.

And regarding your second post:

See, atheists and scientists aren't afraid to say "We just don't know." But whenever something pops up that hasn't been answered yet, theists decide to fill in the gaps with something else that has not been proven, which doesn't solve a damn thing. So instead of trying to answer everything with something else that hasn't even been proven and may not exist, why don't we just leave it with, "We don't know." The answer may come later. If you want to think it's God, that's fine, but there's no reason for me to believe it.

And the surgeon does all the work. If he/she just left the person as they are, they'd probably die. The surgeon is the one who goes in, finds the problem, and fixes it. There's nothing miraculous about it. That doesn't mean it's not a wonderful thing, of course. But the definition of 'miracle' has really been watered down over the years.

And we "hate" on Christianity because it is the most popular and loudest religion. While religions like Islam certainly deserve their criticism, it is Christianity that is constantly trying to be forced into law. If all Christians followed their beliefs in private and accepted that not everyone believes the same thing and didn't try to have rights taken away from other people or didn't treat non-theists with disrespect, we wouldn't be complaining so much.

Christianity is not the most popular. Catholicism, maybe. Mormons are getting up there, too. But not Christianity.

Christianity comes with a promise. Well, many, but there's one I want to talk about. The promise is this: People will hate Christians. Yes, they will. And furthermore, they will hate the Christian God, Jesus.

No other big religion comes with that promise. It's said several times in the New Testament. And it's true, look around. There are a lot of people that try to say that Christianity is following a bunch of rules or you go to hell, but that is not true. They preach fear and hate, and they are the most popular for it. But when you listen to a true Christian, you will find that it is just the opposite. We can't follow the rules. It is impossible. That is why Jesus came, to follow the rules, and then lovingly die for us. Christians hate, but the core of true Christianity is LOVE. And people HATE that. So, anything that has to with loving Jesus is taken out of popular culture. The only socially acceptable way to say Jesus Christ is as an exclaimation of hate. When is the last time you heard someone say "Allah d*** it!", or "Son of a Buddha!"? Never, unless it was jokingly.

You're right. There is nothing freeing or good about the Christianity most people preach. Legalism and whatnot.

Actually, yes, it is. About 33% of the world's population practice Christianity. This includes Catholics. Islam is a close second. I think about 21% practice it. And I believe it is also the fastest growing religion, so it very well could become the most popular religion.

If you're implying that I hate Christians, you are incorrect. I do not hate Christians for believing in God, I only detest the Christians who disrespect others of different/no faith and try to force their beliefs into law. And I do not hate God. I don't believe in God, remember?

And see, there's the problem. There are so many different types of Christians that there is no possible way I could know which Christian is a true Christian. You could give me an example right now, but it wouldn't make any difference. There would always be someone else who would say you are mistaken.

You say the whole "Either follow the rules or burn in Hell" thing just isn't true. So...what then? Are you saying that if someone lied, murdered, stole, and broke all the Ten Commandments and every other rule the Bible demands we follow, they'd get into Heaven?

And I don't think people say those things for the reasons you say. Many people say those things, Christians included. But it has nothing to do with taking the love out of Jesus.

Catholics aren't Christian. Some Catholics will even admit to that.

You say the whole "Either follow the rules or burn in Hell" thing just isn't true. So...what then? Are you saying that if someone lied, murdered, stole, and broke all the Ten Commandments and every other rule the Bible demands we follow, they'd get into Heaven?

Yes. The bible is filled with examples. King David is the biggest one. He commited adultery, and then lied and murdered to cover it up. But he was also a man after God's own heart.

The rules in the bible are not really "rules" in the truest sense. In a way, they are, but they aren't truly written down for us to obey. They are written down to show us we CAN'T obey them. We look at the bible, and we say "I can't do that. It is not possible for me." That is why Jesus came. He came to LIVE the perfect life. He obeyed EVERY rule. He is the only person on Earth who has NEVER deserved to die. But guess what. He did. He suffered death, both physical death, which all men must, and spiritual death, which, by faith in Him, believers will not. It was the perfect sacrifice. He did everything we couldn't (and even if we could, WOULDN'T) do. Going to heaven isn't a matter of being good. Going to heaven is a matter of believing that Jesus is God and that he made the sacrifice on the cross, and asking to get in.

The majority of "Christians" today don't believe that. They add works and forsaking sins to the message of salvation, because they want to think highly of themselves. If you ask "Christians" if what I said up there is true, most will say "no, you have to do blah blah blah..." About 2% of them will agree with me.

Yes, they are. "Christianity" is the term used to represent the belief in God and Jesus being the savior of humanity. Catholics fall into the categorty of "Christianity", as they believe in God and believe that Jesus died on the cross for them.

Now after reading everything you've said, all I can say is that you are just another Christian interpreting the Bible as you wish and deciding for yourself what you believe is the true way to follow the religion. That's fine, every Christian has done this. If the religion makes you a better person, then I say stick with it. But like you said, many people would quickly disagree with everything you said. I know a few fundies on the internet right now who'd quickly disagree with you. You could very well be right in everything you've said. Or at least if I believed anything in the Bible actually happened, which I don't. That's why it really makes no difference to me. People are going to argue forever about this, and I'm glad I don't have to be a part of it. Instead I can only hope that people will just believe what they want, and let others do the same.

No, it doesn't. The fact that someone did the sins is the reason you don't get to Heaven. The fact that you asked FORGIVENESS is what gets you into heaven.

I'm not going to beg for forgiveness for the mistake someone else made thousands of years ago.

It isn't they're mistake. You are the one who sinned. You are the one who pays the price.

Ah, I see. So even though I didn't exist, I still somehow ate the forbidden fruit. Got it.

No, the fact that you lied, stole, cheated, hated (same as murder), murdered, raped, or anything else wrong. That is your mistake.

Hate is a normal human emotion that we feel on a regular basis. An emotion that is, supposing your beliefs are true, given to us by God himself. The idea that God would torture the ones he loved for all eternity because of an emotion that we possess, something that he himself gave us is beyond absurd.

If you really wanted to win me over to your side, telling me I'm going to be tortured for all eternity for finite "crimes" is a very bad way to go. Fear mongering is the coward's way of persuasion.

The only "miracle" I believe in is a thermodynamic miracle. Anything else was invented by men long ago to bring the masses into their religion.

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