They are so kawaii!!!

see my c2 if ya want proof

I really don't know how this couple started. Well I do know! But I sort-of like them. Heck, I wrote a story about them.

Anyway YES! I love this fannon, many times I'll scream about cannon to people but c'mon every fan needs a little fannon in their lives! Afterall our own minds interpret things in our own ways, like how I can feel the love ooze from certain odd pairings or how certain cannon ** me off, we have our own opinions and can support or bash what we want! As long as we don't target a person based off things they cannot control.

However, your abuse of the English language offends me, and I must insist that you learn to spell before you condescend at me anymore.

Abuse of the English language? A person can't speak informaly at times? You haven't seen my writing outside of this site or my marks on English exams, so what makes you think they way I type on the forums or in fanfiction is the way I write in real life?

Eraso-ni suruna-yo, kakko tsukenna-yo. Nani koitsu. Tee hee *skips off to watch the blood and gore*

Thank you for spouting nonsense at me. I'm going to assume that it was an insult, and you were trying to be "clever" by putting it in romaji. Too bad it doesn't translate.

Honestly, the Kaho/Eriol purist/spammer has gotten me to LIKE Eriol/Tomoyo. Eriol and Tomoyo are mature, respectful of others, and a little cheeky. Honestly, given a little time, I think it can work out in the future.

So are Eriol and Kaho. Your point?

As for me being a "spammer", turnabout is fair play. Check out the Eriol/Kaho thread in this very forum to see how many of the commenters here went over there just to say why Eriol/Kaho sucks. In fact, check out the MOD saying that Eriol/Kaho shouldn't be canon. And for the record, I don't like being condescended to by someone who can't even spell AND has a ship-bashing icon about killing kittens.

Sound alike? Nope. Besides I'm not even taking part in this arguement anymore.

You fail at reading comprehension. My "spamming" (one comment, equal to such gems as "I WISH SHE WOULD GO WITH TOUYA *GROWLS* Touya is tall enough for Kaho! He's even taller than her and Eriol is so..................... short............ for her" in the E/K thread but with reasoning deeper than mere height differences) continued because you, the condescending poor speller, picked a fight. I was responding to Dark Qiviut calling me a spammer. Never did I say that you two were the same person.

Besides I'm not even taking part in this arguement anymore.

Really? Could've fooled me. Visible INVISIBLE PARTICIPATION, perhaps?

The point is that I like Eriol/Tomoyo, regardless of their age gap.

And this is coming from someone who also likes Eriol/Kaho (although not for the same reasons as for Eriol/Tomoyo).

In fact, check out the MOD saying that Eriol/Kaho shouldn't be canon.

I, for one, really dislike the notion of couples becoming canon, Eriol/Kaho including. I think couples should be left for us fans to speculate through many forms of communication, such as fanfiction, fanart, and forum conversations.

As for me being a "spammer", turnabout is fair play.

No, Convoy, turnabout is never fair play, whether you like it or not. Vengeance on a whole fanbase only becomes bitter, especially when making a fool out of the fandom of a couple you love.

By the way, bashing a couple is one thing. Bashing fans and spitting prejudicial venom on their entire fanbase in total is another, especially if that person is legally an adult worldwide.

By the way, Convoy, you have been spamming. You've been reading Eriol/Tomoyo fics and blasting the fics and the fans for canon "inconsistencies," not following the canon AT ALL, not showing characters close to them (the characters can be doing important errands; they can't be together all the time), and for the pairings themselves. You've been doing it again and again and again, and it's not only annoying the fans, but ticking them off, too. Your constant abuse towards the Eriol/Tomoyo fans only makes them dislike Kaho/Eriol more. In addition, your antics fall under canon/couple eliticism, spamming, and trolling. And for someone who claims to be older than me, I'm very appalled by your actions.

Seriously, why read Eriol/Tomoyo fics when you know you're not going to like them in the first place? Don't like Eriol/Tomoyo fics and the fans? Then don't read them; leave the fans in peace; and quit making an embarrassment of not only yourself, but the entire Kaho/Eriol fan-community in general.

I, for one, really dislike the notion of couples becoming canon

Well, what were you expecting in a show that's about love? CLAMP isn't writing for you, and CLAMP likes the idea of their couples ending up together.

And you completely missed my point about the mod's statement. She said "don't get catty", then she went and got catty. What do you have to say about that blatant hypocrisy.

You've been reading Eriol/Tomoyo fics and blasting the fics and the fans for canon "inconsistencies," not following the canon AT ALL

So, because I don't like the pairing, I'm not allowed to point out where they got things completely wrong? Well, that makes as much sense as saying that only people who write like Shakespeare can critique someone else's writing. Canon inconsistencies endure because nobody corrects them, which leads to fandom decay and the situation we have now, where half the fanbase has never seen more than two episodes, thinks that all fanfiction is accurate, and freaks out at the thought of any unusual couples.

In addition, your antics fall under canon/couple eliticism, spamming, and trolling. And for someone who claims to be older than me, I'm very appalled by your actions.

You have a very low threshold for disgust, then. If one flamer is all it takes, never leave your nice safe corner of fandom. I'd hate to see how you'd react to plagiarism and smearing the names of dead and dying fans. Or is being OMGSOMEEN worse than that?

And at least I take my lumps and allow the poor oppressed fangirls to reply. Can't see you doing the same without forcing me to look even more like a spammer.

Don't like Eriol/Tomoyo fics and the fans? Then don't read them

Ahhh, good old "don't like, don't read". The defense of fanbrats the internets over. Comms, newspapers, comics, shows, etc. that tear down things they don't like are a fact of life, and whining won't do anything about it.

For the record, I apologize for having to make this off-topic reply in this forum. I truly would have responded via PM, but apparently some attackers are too cowardly to allow me to be gracious to others and take the **-slinging elsewhere.

I just love ExT.

I just love them.

I don't care what other people say.

We must not fight about such petty things. We must learn to respect other people's opinions.

-melody-

I just love ExT.

I just love them.

I don't care what other people say.

We must not fight about such petty things. We must learn to respect other people's opinions.

-melody-

I think EriolxTomoyo is a pretty cool pairing. I really don't have too much reasoning towards it, other than how I usually get into a pairing - "Hm, that sounds pretty cute, I wonder if there's any fanbase".

Sure there's the whole concept of how Tomoyo is in love with Sakura, but there are ways to progress past that or get around it in fanfic.

Sure there's the whole concept of how Tomoyo is in love with Sakura, but there are ways to progress past that or get around it in fanfic.

A "concept" that's pretty central to her character. How can you "get around it" without losing a huge part of Tomoyo's character? Or cheapening her love for Sakura and her very mature realization that she doesn't need to be with Sakura to be happy in love?

And speaking of problems with Eriol/Tomoyo, what about all the obstacles with Eriol? Such as his love for Kaho? His mental age? His Guardians, who are in all respects his children? Last but not least, how he's literally old enough to be Tomoyo's father?

A "concept" that's pretty central to her character. How can you "get around it" without losing a huge part of Tomoyo's character? Or cheapening her love for Sakura and her very mature realization that she doesn't need to be with Sakura to be happy in love?

I'm using concept for lack of a better word at the time of posting and current moment, I wasn't aware that I had to have a thesaurus and dictionary next to me at all times when posting on a forum. And would it really be cheapening it to even consider "maybe she's bisexual" or "she could prefer girls, but there is a chance she could fall for a guy" or possibly just take into consideration the (incorrect, but a good base line) Kinsey Scale? She never really states herself in cannon that's she's exclusively lesbian.

And speaking of problems with Eriol/Tomoyo, what about all the obstacles with Eriol? Such as his love for Kaho? His mental age? His Guardians, who are in all respects his children? Last but not least, how he's literally old enough to be Tomoyo's father?

With obstacles regaurding Eriol, that all depends how the writer would chose to approach the. With his love for Kaho, even adults can grow apart from each other so there's nothing really saying "he's in love with her and only going to be in love with her". Years down the line they could just wind up going seperate ways, nothing dramatic just moving on.

Mentally or physically I always stand by one saying, "age only matters if you're cheese", so while they may be at different mental ages that doesn't mean it's a huge deal. Look at Rika and Terada, physically and metally they're ages apart, but at the same time they managed to fall in love. You even stated yourself Tomoyo is very mature for her age, so even if Eriol and Tomoyo are on different thought planes she could still possibly be considered a little closer in mental age than other girls her age, right?

As for the Guardians, I don't really know what to say about them. In a way it would have to depend on the situation the writer is going for or how they would fit in in their minds.

And would it really be cheapening it to even consider "maybe she's bisexual" or "she could prefer girls, but there is a chance she could fall for a guy" or possibly just take into consideration the (incorrect, but a good base line) Kinsey Scale?

That's not what I mean, though denying that Tomoyo loves Sakura at all is a big problem. When Tomoyo is paired with someone else in fanfiction, it's often with the sense that Tomoyo cannot really be happy single, and that she needs requited love to have a happy ending. That does cheapen her love for Sakura, which is all about not needing it to be requited.

With his love for Kaho, even adults can grow apart from each other so there's nothing really saying "he's in love with her and only going to be in love with her". Years down the line they could just wind up going seperate ways, nothing dramatic just moving on.

Pity it doesn't play out that way most of the time. Despite Eriol and Kaho both being adults, and being friends before lovers, it seems impossible for someone to write E/T with past E/K without either making it a messy break-up that breaks Eriol's heart in a way only Tomoyo can heal, or a few words are given to them not working out before Kaho pushes Eriol out of her life and into Tomoyo's. In either case, their friendship is almost never acknowledged, and Kaho serves only as a catalyst to E/T, which sells her short.

Mentally or physically I always stand by one saying, "age only matters if you're cheese", so while they may be at different mental ages that doesn't mean it's a huge deal.

It's a huge deal when it's never acknowledged, or worse, E/T is justified by Eriol needing to be with someone his own age. Especially as Eriol's physical and chronological ages don't match up; when it's not addressed, when the fics have Eriol and Tomoyo hooking up in high school, it gives the impression that he's misleading everyone about his true age, in order to get close to them. That's predatory behavior.

As for Tomoyo's maturity putting her above the other girls her age, it doesn't make any real difference. So she has a better understanding of love. That doesn't help her relate better to someone who lived for centuries, died, then spent decades as a child, except maybe in thinking for the long term. In the most common canon fanfic setups, her maturity advantage and her perception should only serve to drive her farther from Eriol, because she should be able to perceive that he isn't being honest when he's playing fellow student.

As for the Guardians, I don't really know what to say about them.

Neither do most E/T fics. They're usually living props, possibly Tomoyo cheerleaders. Most jarringly, in fics where Kaho has broken Eriol's heart, he's inconsolable, forgetting that his Guardians complete him and will always be there for him. No, apparently only Tomoyo can help him, not the beings he created and who should know him better than anyone.

And then there's Tomoyo's relation to the Guardians, or lack of it. Most fics never address how she feels about them being Eriol's children, and how if she gets into a serious relationship with Eriol, she will for all intents and purposes be their stepmother. Often while still a teenager, as that's when she and Eriol hook up. Her mature outlook towards romantic love isn't going to be too helpful for parenthood.

When Tomoyo is paired with someone else in fanfiction, it's often with the sense that Tomoyo cannot really be happy single, and that she needs requited love to have a happy ending. That does cheapen her love for Sakura, which is all about not needing it to be requited.

But who's to say every ExT shipper feels this way? I think Tomoyo could be happy single, but I like her to be paired with Eriol for the simple reason that I think they'd be a nice couple. Sure love doesn't need to be requited, but sometimes people just like to have a pairing because they enjoy reading about it and writing it.

Despite Eriol and Kaho both being adults, and being friends before lovers, it seems impossible for someone to write E/T with past E/K without either making it a messy break-up that breaks Eriol's heart in a way only Tomoyo can heal, or a few words are given to them not working out before Kaho pushes Eriol out of her life and into Tomoyo's. In either case, their friendship is almost never acknowledged, and Kaho serves only as a catalyst to E/T, which sells her short.

But maybe that's just what's been written, somebody could always write a ExT with past ExK without the messy break up. The simplest way to do that is not to focus the whole story around that and just keep it clean, simple, and short without having to turn Kaho into that catalyst. And who's to say that if they did split up that Eriol and Kaho couldn't be friends, I know a good deal of people who are still on good terms with their ex-boyfriends or -girlfriends.

It's a huge deal when it's never acknowledged, or worse, E/T is justified by Eriol needing to be with someone his own age. Especially as Eriol's physical and chronological ages don't match up; when it's not addressed, when the fics have Eriol and Tomoyo hooking up in high school, it gives the impression that he's misleading everyone about his true age, in order to get close to them.

Again, that's more a problem of the writer than the pairing. Because the writer doesn't take the time to take cannon points and explain them in a simple, yet still understandable, way, the story is bound to have those flaws. If the writer takes the time to explain the situation with the difference in Eriol's ages, it could work into the story very nicely.

In the most common canon fanfic setups, her maturity advantage and her perception should only serve to drive her farther from Eriol, because she should be able to perceive that he isn't being honest when he's playing fellow student.

I could have sworn that Tomoyo was with Sayoran and Sakura when Eriol explained about his past and about his age - at least in that episode in the anime. Then again, it has been a while since I watched the episode and I don't have the manga on my person at the moment.

Although I really do think this is more of a problem with a writer than the shipping. Because there always could be a way to work in Eriol's explanations into the plot of a story, it's more trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B without mincing details or going into a ramble.

Neither do most E/T fics. They're usually living props, possibly Tomoyo cheerleaders. Most jarringly, in fics where Kaho has broken Eriol's heart, he's inconsolable, forgetting that his Guardians complete him and will always be there for him. No, apparently only Tomoyo can help him, not the beings he created and who should know him better than anyone.

And then there's Tomoyo's relation to the Guardians, or lack of it. Most fics never address how she feels about them being Eriol's children, and how if she gets into a serious relationship with Eriol, she will for all intents and purposes be their stepmother. Often while still a teenager, as that's when she and Eriol hook up. Her mature outlook towards romantic love isn't going to be too helpful for parenthood.

I get your point with this, but I really do think all of that depends on how the writer takes the subject. A good writer could figure out how to work those elements into a story, but since it can be very dificult most tend to try and ingore it. So that can't really be tagged onto the pairing as it is on the stories written for the pairing.

Somebody could, maybe not all, a good writer could... None of that changes the fact that most writers are guilty of selling the characters short and ignoring the problems, and only a very few if any even acknowledge them.

As for the problems being the fault of the writer rather than the pairing, in this case it makes little difference. To start, the writers define the pairing, as without them, there would be no E/T. And with the pairing, they've also defined all these pitfalls, which are part and parcel to pretty much every canon-verse fic. And until your hypothetical good writer comes along and writes the fics that address the problems and becomes popular to start a trend that counters the original one that created the issues, they will remain problems with the pairing, simply because everyone's work has those problems. (As a sidenote, they might not be for AU, but AU E/T is very often just two OCs with the characters' names slapped on and maybe a few canon characterization traits exaggerated to the point of OOCness, making individual AU E/T pairings their own pairing only loosely related to any other.)

Now, to address individual points, you don't seem to understand what I'm getting at with Eriol's age. It's not about not explaining it, it's about willfully ignoring it and having Eriol attend high school with the rest so he can fall in love with Tomoyo before they both get old (like, presumably, Kaho, who's an old hag in her mid-twenties). Even when Eriol's stated to be a half-reincarnation along with Fujitaka, making him implicitly Fujitaka's age, there's never any explanation for why he's still pretending to be a school student, or even any indication that he is pretending as he was in canon. And yes, Syaoran, Sakura, and Tomoyo were all told all about Eriol being older than he looks and pretending to be a student; yet when he's attending high school, they consider it natural, apparently forgetting everything Eriol revealed about his age.

since it [the Guardians] can be very dificult most tend to try and ingore it. So that can't really be tagged onto the pairing as it is on the stories written for the pairing.

On the contrary; the Guardians are part of Eriol's life, which is supposed to be merged seamlessly with Tomoyo's in the course of the pairing. If most writers find them so difficult that they ignore them completely, and the rest turn the Guardians into cardboard cutouts, then that should be a sign that their existence is a problem with the pairing. In a real-life situation, if the other partner cannot deal with the first partner's children, then it's a problem with the relationship that will often cause it to fail. I suppose you could eliminate the Guardians, but that makes the story AU, and Eriol a different character, leaving the problem with E/T as they are in canon unresolved.

Look, I do get what you're saying in both details and the big picture, but in my personal opinion I do think most of the problems with the pairing lay more in how one writes it then the pairing itself. Because there could always be one of those hypothetical good writers that could make it work out - probably not on FFN though.

But we are both inclined to believe different things, espcially since I ship the pairing and you don't, so we may not reach an agreement on this. So maybe we should just agree to disagree and move on.

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